I've only had my spa for about 2 months now, and after finally moving, wiring, and everything else, was enjoying the heck out of it until suddenly the 2 speed pump motor quit, and the lcd readout would flash four dots in between the digits, apparently indicating a trouble condition.

When I would switch on/off the power at the breaker, I could hear a click of a relay about 5 seconds after the controller would get its bearings.
I've gone through a list of suspected problems, part of which was hooking up the pump motor directly- it worked. Everything led me to suspect a bad relay, but now that I've (labeled all wires & removed the control board and tested each of the 8 relays (az2150-1a-24def), it seems they are all fine, however I worry that I may have damaged something else in testing them while they were installed. I've also checked the fuses on the board.

Anyway, so I have come to a point where I'm out of ideas. I'm fairly convinced that the trouble is within the control board, and I've already spent a ton of money replacing other components (ie. heater) and getting up to speed on how to maintain a spa. This is a used tub with no warranty in effect. The 'spa pack' was the spa builders brand, and the whole spa seems to be a kit type 8 person spa.

I guess I'm not ready to give up yet, and although I'm a technical person, I'm not rich, and so was hoping I could get this fixed quickly without a 2nd mortgage. Thanks advance for any suggestions or other advice!
-kevin

Sorry for the late reply - I missed this memo...

That Gecko system you don't repair, you replace the entire thing. (You can't even get a replacement board for it either - nor is it recommended)

You can't get a schematic for it other than what's inside the front cover.

Testing the relays - well, if you understand how a micro-controller based system would function - the relays won't give you error indicators on the topside control panel. It's the mcu that does - or the interface logic.

Without in-depth knowledge of this proprietary (as they all are) system, you're batting zeros, no matter what you do.

I replace these things all the time with a Balboa VS501 series, an ACC STD-1000, or an EPack.

At least you can get some decent factory support with those.
I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but it's the best thing you can do at this point if you want a working tub - save some accidental maggotron making its way into your board, fixing it.

wow- you hit the nail on the head! that IS just what I was hoping not to hear! " title="Laughing" /> Anyway, in the time passed, I've replaced a relay driver chip that I accidently burned out while trouble shooting, and now we're back to where we started. I phoned gecko yesterday, and was surprised to at least speak with a helpful rep sooner than later, however in the end, he referred me to a list of technicians to call for a schematic. I'm tempted to call back today as a certified technician, in order to try and get a schematic. However, if they don't even supply those for their design to their techs, then I won't get my hopes up. So, although I'm mechanically and eletronically inclined, I'm not an EE, and am reaching a point of conclusion as to what I can do. The good news, is that my dad IS a 50 year veteran of Electronic Engineering, and has offered to check it out if I ship it back to him in Chicago. The overall circuit appears a lot simpler the usual stuff I've seen him working on over the years, so I hope it turns out to be no big deal. I would still love to help out by locating a decent schematic, so for now I guess that's still the mission. Until I move onto plan C- which is buy a new spa pack. " title="Sad" /> All this DOES make me wonder what makes this particular system so unique that you don't replace or repair it, when such practice seems commonplace for other units. While I don't want to worry too much about plan C yet-- aren't these packs fundamentally the same? Couldn't I get a general purpose pack on ebay? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160200461170

Same reason you won't be able to find a schematic for the circuit board in your pc. You don't give your competitors your design information.

Additionally, that system is made in Quebec Canada by Gecko Electronique - they're not going to give you a schematic no matter how good you are in French.

Perhaps as a technician you should not forget that your qualified bench time is worth $xxx dollars per hour, and by the time you end up learning the system enough to spec the source of the problem - sourcing replacement components, etc - you would spend more time doing that than the board will ever be worth. How much time (at $xx per hour) have you already spent?

Besides, what would you do with it if the mcu was defective? Throw it in the trash, along with all the time you spent figuring it out. Why? Because no manufacturer is going to release a micro-controller replacement chip pre-programmed with their proprietary code to someone that knows how to reverse engineer their work.

Last thing, take note of the proprietary high limit sensor strip hanging off the lower right hand side of the board... What would you do if that little $2 item went bad? Same same...

I used to be a comms tech and way back when, when two way motorola walkies were in excess of $1200 a piece, it was worth the bench time to repair them - because the manufacturers supported the techs with complete blow by blow system/discrete component specifications down to the last resistor chip on the board. What we're talking about here though, is a proprietary consumer appliance controller. Throw it away and get another... One reason why I got out of the TV/Stereo service business many years ago.

BTW, that controller you linked to is an air control system - you'll have to add air push buttons to your spa to install it... it's also a cheap-ass design. Give us a call sometime and we can help you inject some common sense into replacing that thing - with a warranty as well.

ROTFL...

Just wondering who gave you such a line... haha.

Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to mention - those controls also have what I call 'relay of death' syndrome. There's a very good chance the heater relay(s) will one day explode, blowing the pins straight thru the board and catch it on fire. If you are able to repair it, be sure you replace that heater element with a 4500 watt version to prevent this from happening.

Here's what I was referring to... Not uncommon problem with these things...

Another one... Same manufacturer, more expensive model...

Well, that certainly is a heaping helping of discouragement for the repair route. Actually though, you'll probably be more amused with the news that the main suggestion the CSR offered was basically this website (spanet.net)- more specifically, he suggested spatechs.com.

Anyway, as you might expect, I'm disappointed to hear of the difficulties in getting a decent schematic. I continue to wonder why schematics are available for other models, but the gecko is excluded. Isn't everyone's design proprietary? Anyway, the boards in your pics are pretty dramatically damaged- no arguement there. My particular board has no observable damage (except maybe a little where I replaced that relay controller). Also, my situation is unique in that dad (who should be retired at this point) tends to consider this a bit more of a hobby than work (lucky for me). So, while you make a valid case for a time value, I'm still planning to ship it to him to get his take on things. Following that, I'll look into getting a new spa pack. (Plan C).

I don't get the impression that any of the logic is out of order, and so won't likely factor in. Either way, I still think its worth looking into.

What about 'trouble codes'? In wiring the unit back in and turning it on, I took careful note of the three dots flashing between the digits. I imagine that something can be learned by that. Any ideas?

Thanks again for the help! (and the scary visuals!)
-k

Oh... one more question... even though the relays checked out when I tested them on the board- I still have a suspicion that we still might find them to blame. So- we're back to the problem of sourcing one (az2150-1a-24def). As opposed to a minimum number/$ amount of them. any ideas there? (also- the experience of fixing this helps me justify the purchase of more soldering/desolderting and tech. equipment.... I like tools and any excuse will do... ) " title="Razz" />

In regards to note about 'other brands schematics are available for'... no manufacturer of digital systems provides schematics down to the discrete component level. The closest you will ever get is a system block / wiring diagram on the inside of the cover.

Regarding damage to the board - yours may get this way, if your heater is 5.5 kw. Not today maybe, not tomorrow, but sometime... either that or the heater relays will just wear out soon. That's why I originally said if you get it fixed, replace that element with a 4500 watt version.

On replacement relays - jameco.com and/or rselectronics.com and/or futureelectronics.com

The flashing dots... one of the reasons why you can't get any real error codes out of that thing is that gecko was sued by balboa instruments for patent infringements... it went on for years and was finally settled in 2003. Hence no more self-diagnostic error codes amongst other things.

The folks that sent you to us, yes we are one of their largest distributors, if we had schematics or more detailed information, we'd be selling them for $20 a piece and sell a LOT of them. heh heh... There are schematics available for conventional, non-digital units at allied innovations. But that's it on that score.

I ran across a service manul for my Gecko Spa pack online last night froam an Australian devision of the company. Whats the exact controller that you have?