HotSprings Grandee Circ Pump - E5

I just purchased a brand new E5 circulation pump to replace my defective Silentflo 5000. Installed everything properly and it is tripping the 20amp circuit within 1 second. If I disconnect the circ pump in the control panel, it does not trip the breaker and everything else works properly - jet pumps, control panel, heater, etc. I wire and rewired the pump to insure everythign was clean (no fray strands, etc).

Here is how I have the E5 wired:

Black wire going to 'L'
White wire going to 'N'
Green wire going to Ground

By the way, the installation instructions that came with the pump are not correct. I validated the above with my local hot springs dealer who also said the instructions are incorrect. I installed in a drained spa, so no water or moisture anywhere near the cir pump.

Any help is appreciated. I am beginning to think this new pump is defective.

Posted by on 2009-05-23 11:11:07. (17056)

It sounds like a bad circ pump from the factory. I would unhook the wires at the circ pump, if it still trips and doesn't when disconnected at circuit board the it could be a bad circ pump cord. Pete http://www.makesmeshutter.com

Posted by on 2009-05-27 10:41:50. (17094)

Well after performing a bunch of tests, I am confident the pump is working fine. Took it out and hooked it up to a 110 outlet running water through the pump and worked great. I also used the wiring harness for the test, so that's not bad either.

Checked the ohms on each line.

When not in tub--
0.L on Line-Ground
0.L on Neutral-Ground
~5ohms on Line-Neutral

As I said pump runs fine when out of tub.

When in tub and hooked to the control panel-- still flips 20amp breaker and ohms out as follows:

~5ohms on Line-Ground
~0.2 on Neutral-Ground
~5ohms on Line-Neutral

Wondering why when in the tub hooked to the control panel I get a reading on the Line-Ground. Maybe my control board is bad for that connection. Any good way to check? Or maybe 20amp GFCI as previously suggested, but that still doesn't explain why Jet1 and Jet2 which work off the 20amp work fine when circ pump is disconnected.

It maybe time to call in the service.

Posted by on 2009-05-27 21:21:39. (17098)

I'm still leaning toward the circ pump being bad. It is tripping the GFI which tells me it has a current leakage to ground. It runs fine on the 110v line because it is not a GFI line. I would go back to where you bought the circ pump and tell them the symptom.They should give you a new one (1 year warranty on part). You could then hook it up without plumbing it and turn it on for a couple seconds to see if trips breaker. Pete http://www.makesmeshutter.com

Posted by on 2009-05-28 08:35:07. (17105)

Is there any way to test with a probe or meter to see if the ground is leaking? I measured the Ohms on pump before and after hookup. Reads 0.L Black-Ground when disconnected from Control Board. When connected to the Control Board it reads about 5ohms. I also just read the control board with nothing connected, confirmed 5ohms on the Black-Ground.

One other test I thought about was to plug the circ pump into the Jet 2 connector since I know that works fine. What do you think?

I bought the pump online so would prefer to know for sure before going through the hassle of exchanging.

Posted by on 2009-05-28 12:16:22. (17109)

You'll need a meter to test AC Milli amps. You unhook the ground wire and put the meter between the ground wire and the terminal it came off. You shouldn't get much of a reading. We need to know what spa you have and the year? (A Serial Number is the best). Some use the 20 amp for the heater. Does the 30 amp turn on the power to the spa? Pete http://www.makesmeshutter.com These are only suggestions - use at your own risk.

Posted by on 2009-05-28 15:19:29. (17112)

It is a 1998, Model G - Serial G381210 Grandee Spa.

The 30amp runs the heater and the 20amp runs the display and pumps.

Posted by on 2009-05-28 17:00:22. (17116)

Ok, I didn't have the meter you mentioned so tried a series of tests suggested by a coworker.

I unhooked the ground and bonding wire from the circ pump to the control panel. Only line and neutral connected. With the heater completely disconnected it runs fine. All pumps work - jet1, jet2 and circ. Display works fine as well.

Now if I connect the heater back up to the control panel (black, white and green), it flips the breaker.

So it's pretty clear there is a relationship between my heater and the circ pump.

They are close in proximity in terms of water source. Everything is very dry so no chance of excess water in the compartment. Any further suggestions? Thanks for your help.

Posted by on 2009-05-28 19:28:58. (17117)

Oh, one more thing I tried. I disconnected just the heater ground (green). Left the black and white in. Everything is working - heater, jet1, jet2, circ. Of course, not grounded so unsafe, but wondering now if my problem is the heater, not the circ pump.

Posted by on 2009-05-28 19:33:49. (17118)

This is a good one. Sounds like there is current loss to ground somewhere. I would check the ground from the spa to the sub-panel. It is the 20 amp that is tripping correct? On that spa the 30 runs the heater. DAN - any ideas? Pete use this advice at your own risk http://www.makesmeshutter.com

Posted by on 2009-05-29 08:41:05. (17119)

Yes the 20amp is the one tripping. But the 30amp runs the heater.

Posted by on 2009-05-29 11:05:06. (17122)

Ok, series of more tests and I am now thinking it's something with the heater. Possibly the Therm or High Limit Sensors.

Morning cold spa:
All night the spa has not been running. Both breakers left off. Start up the spa with everything hooked up. Heater is plugged in all 3 wires including ground. Circ pump is plugged in all 3 wires including ground. Turn on both breakers and runs flawlessly. This lasted about 10 mins or so. Then the breaker tripped. Tried to turn it back on and the 20 amp continuously pops.

Several tests during the day:
Could not get the spa to do what it did first thing in the morning but noticed that when the heater light came on that seemed to trigger somethign that then caused the breaker to trip. So i played around with taking the sensors. A couple times the pump would run fine for a little while when i did that. Can't remmeber all the tests, but just seemed to point to the sensors and if the heater light was off then the circ pump would work occasionally.

Third to the last test:

Took the heater out of the spa completely. Ran the 3/4 tubing back through the outlet from the circ pump (basically made a loop). Water flow is the same basic path as before only now the heater is out of the picture completely. Note: All 3 wires hooked up on the circ pump including ground. So I turn on just the 20amp breaker and the pump powers up and runs fine.

Second to last test:

Put the heater back in the spa, after taking it apart and checking the continuity and resistance. Everything seemed to check out okay. Cleaned the sensors a little (quite a bit of rust color). First I plugged everything in. Both grounds on both heater and circ pump. When i flipped the breakers the 20 amp tripped.

Last test:
Then i decided to put it in summer mode. Ran the jets for a few minutes. Turned the jets off. Switched summer mode to off. The circ pump kicked in and ran great. The heater fired up and seemed to be working fine. I watched it for about 3-4 mins then walked away. Came back in about 10 mins and the breaker had tripped.

So I am thinking something is going on with the heater and sensors.

Posted by on 2009-05-31 21:35:45. (17148)

This is surely a good one. It could possibly be a weak breaker. You could also try new sensors - they don't cost much. I doubt that's it but since they are so cheap why not. Good Luck Pete use this advice at your own risk http://www.makesmeshutter.com

Posted by on 2009-06-01 08:39:25. (17152)

What a pain huh? Maybe a weak breaker. Let us know what the service person found out. It's easier to troubleshoot when at the spa. Good Luck Pete http://www.makesmeshutter.com http://www.floridahotspring.com

Posted by on 2009-06-09 08:15:31. (17219)

How can this crap above get on this site?

Posted by on 2009-06-10 15:01:51. (17242)

Posted by on 2009-06-18 13:10:53. Finland (17319)

Posted by on 2009-07-29 17:30:30. Finland (17848)