Hi:

I have a 1994 Tiger Springs Manora Model M ( serial #240050).

it's 115Volt, 20 amp ( on a dedicated 20amp grounded solo outlet )

I just purchased this spa ( 3rd owner ) and am having the following issue.

I filled the tub to the fill line ( 4-6 inches from the top, per the manual )

plugged in, tested the GFCI, per the manual and it works.

I turned the heater dial to 5, then pushed the button for "jets"... left it on for a few hours to run it.. the tub heated the water from a starting point of 70degrees F to a finishing point of 76F ( in about 3 hours ).. I turned the jets off and went to bed, assuming the water would still heat.

In the morning, the tub was cold again, and the heater not working.. It looked like the GFCI had tripped, so i reset and restarted the jets...

did this several times.. then realized that if I reset the GFCI and did not turn the jets on... it would trip after about 15-20 seconds.

It doesn't trip when the jets ( or light ) are running.. but as soon as I turn the jets off, the GFCI will trip and the heat will turn off.

I have the records that show the GFCI was replaced about 4 years ago.. just wondering if any of you pros have experienced this and have advice before I call for service.

Thank you,

Todd

Unplug the heater from the control box and try the test again.

If it works, then you may have a faulty heater element causing the gfci to trip.

Then again, your gfci could be defective too.

I prefer to replace those cord based GFCI's with a standard 20 amp 115 volt plug, and install a 20 amp GFCI in the wall socket, or change the breaker in the house to a 20 amp GFCI.

Pageup- Thanks for the quick response.

I don't think I was clear enough. My cord is a 20am/115 v rated single plug ( no gfci inline ). I have a single outlet that the cord plugs into, and there is a 20amp GFCI circuit breaker in the panel.

I didn't see an electrical plug for the heater in the control panel.. I did see that the light plugs into the GFCI in the control panel, but that was the only one I saw.... am I missing it?

thanks again for your help. It's very much appreciated.

todd

Sorry, wrong make and year. What I'd do is remove both wires that go to the heater element (tape up / be sure they don't touch anything) and see if that stops the tripping. http://spapartsnet.com/Electric-Heaters... 6_0_1.html

so if I remove the wires and breaker doesn't trip, I can assume the heater element needs to be replaced with the one you listed above?

thanks again,

Todd

Yes.

thanks for your help.

I'll be trying that this evening.

I'm really stumped though wtih this one.

This is supposed to be an either/or type of setup. either the jet pump or the heater should be on at one time, not both, since this is a 20 amp setup and the heater draws 12 amps alone( i think ).

seems to me that since the water is heating fine when the jets are running, but it shuts off when they're not, then maybe whoever wired it up, crossed some wires or something.

thoughts?

Thanks,

Well you got your logic incorrect here...

That's the thing, its NOT heating when the jets are on.

It turns the heater on when you turn the jets off, which trips the gfci.

so if it's not heating when the jets are on.. how is the water getting hotter? ( about 2 degrees per hour when the jets are running.

see how this doesn't make sense?

When the jets are off.. the heater shuts off after about 20 seconds.

Your pump is passively heating the water.

(Put your hand on it after it's been running for a while).

wow.. ok, I never even thought of that.

I have oregon hotsprings coming out tomorrow to take a look at it.. it's way beyond my meager skills.

I'll keep you all in the loop in case you're anxiously waiting to hear.

todd

Thanks for the info.

I checked last night, and you were right.. the pump was warm.. the long tube containing the heating element was cool.

I'm just going to have the spa guy come today and replace the heating unit. ( I see them for sale on your site, but can't find the wires coming out of the heater, and I just want to have the tub given a once over.. figure it's a good use of funds.

ps.. I had no idea that the pump could passively heat the entire tub from 70 to 105 degrees.

Yes there are tubs out there that heat only using passive pump heat - no heaters...

And some tubs that are too well insulated can overheat during the summer with the pump being in filtration mode only.

I just had a conversation with the Oregon Hotsprings svc mgr and he feels that it could be the circulation pump that has gone bad.

His reasoning is that the jets operate when the "jets" button is pushed.. but that the heater shuts off consistently within 20 seconds when the temp dial is turned on.

He feels that this is caused by a bad circulation pump. He said that if water wasn't circulating through the pump then the heater usually overheats within 20 seconds and shuts off as a safety measure.

Any thoughts before I shell out a few hundred for a new pump?

Well is this what you told him?:

If you told him this, then he's wrong.

Circ pump not working and a normal overheat sequence does not involve a gfci trip. What he's referring to is the high limit sensor tripping off line because the heater overheated.

Not a gfci trip.

So which is it? Gfci trip or high limit sensor trip?

Pageup:

thanks for the quick reply.

When I first started looking at this problem monday, I thought it was the GFCI tripping.. so what I would do is push in the test button, then pop the reset button each time the tub shut off.

Now when I turn the temp dial on, and I can hear the low buzzing or hum for 20 secons, then when it stops, I just turn the knob all the way off and turn it back on and it comes back on.

so which do you think it is?



by the way.. jet pump is working fine still through all of this, and making the tub warm. Is there any issue with running the pump constantly or as needed to keep the water at about 105 or so until after the weekend?

todd

Ok, so now we've changed gears entirely. 1. We never had an actual ground fault so that eliminates the entire discussion up to now. 2. You hear a hum for 20 seconds and then it stops. Yes the hot springs guy was right. You have a defective circ pump. No do not run that jet pump for that long... the possibility is quite high that you could over heat the system, and not know when it happens. Turn it on for a short while, is ok, but you need to NEVER forget that it is running. You really don't want to know what a melted tub looks like. http://spapartsnet.com/Hot-Springs-Part... 8_1_1.html

It has a flow switch in a 1994, the heater generally won't overheat when the circ pump fails. Also, the high limit on a 1994 must be manually reset. Shutting down the power and re-powering will not reset your tripped high limit.

That being said, there is a wierd little flow/sensor fail-safe built into the tub. If it doesn't detect flow for about 20-30 seconds, it will shut down. To reset, turn your T-stat knob all the way up, then all the way down, then all the way up again. If the hot tub comes back to life- you have a flow failure...either circ pump, flow/switch, or circuit board failure. It will trip again in about 20-30 seconds.

It could very well be the circ pump- do you feel water coming out of the output grill? (opposite side of the tub)

Dang it swine... what took you so long???

LOL- you had it if the gfci was actually tripping " title="Laughing" />

Yeah but you're my chief bs detector and brand arbitrator. haha. I missed your presence on this topic.

Btw, I got an IQ2020 with the heater relay is clicking on and off like a vibrator when jets off. Goes away with jets on. Circ pump is putting out like a new orleans hooker;

(Yes t-stat is calling for heat).

Any thoughts?

Thanks my man.

That's a weird one " title="Confused" /> What year and model?

Pageup.. thank you for all the time you've spent with me.. especially since I didn't diagnose or document the problem correctly.

swine.. thanks for joining in.. I've been reading your posts and wishing you lived a bit closer to portland.

I have not felt any water coming out of the vent at the bottom ( sorry, I know I screwed up the nomenclature ).

It's looking more and more like a circ pump issue... I have service coming friday and will keep you all in the loop.

I'll also be ordering my pump from you... you've definitely earned my business with your assistance ( I just need the service guy to tell me if I need a single or double speed.. i'm guessing single but want to be sure )


thanks again,

todd

ps.. Since I had the jets on all day, the tub was a nice 105 around 9pm when the wife and I broke in the tub.. needless to say, a good time was had by all ( but I turned it off this morning before I left.. and after seeing your note about "melted" tubs, won't be leaving it on again until it's fixed )

So my wife called the hot tub guy from Oregon Hot springs... he came and diagnosed the problem ( faulty circ pump) and replaced it within about 30 minutes, as well as a few other plumbing fittings.

He was there and had the pump, so I figured I might as well get it done right away, and I wouldn't screw it up.

Thanks to all of you for your help.

I really appreciate your time and expertise.

todd

yay! " title="Very Happy" />