I bought a used G-361014 which I believe is a 1996. I know it has at least one major leak and I'm sure a few more. I was told that one leak means more and that it isn't worth chasing them. Q 1) Is that true?

I was also told the Grandee is Hot Spring's flagship product and to try to get it working as it is a mighty fine unit. Q 2) Is that true?

Q 3) What's the best approach to going after the leaks as I'd hate to keep putting it up on its side and refilling between each test?

I'm thinking I'll dig from the sides and/or raise the spa enough (with sufficient support) to get access to the trouble spot(s) from beneath. I already had it up on it's side once and found a leaky pipe that passed through the motor compartment. It did NOT look to be any easy access area.

Q 4) Once fixed, what's the best thing to re-foam the void?

I plan to rebuild the sides regardless if I ripped them off to chase the leak or not. I'll extend them 6 inches to the edge of the oversized cement pad. Q 5) What insulation would be suitable for that area? Those 4x8 pink sheets of home insulation?

I don't get any heat. Q 6) Is there a troubleshooting process to determine if the Watkins No-Fault 5500 cartridge heater has gone kaput?

Thanks!

Heck if swine or charger show up, you could offer them a $50 consulting fee and you might get a real straight answer to that one... " title="Twisted Evil" />

OK, perhaps my post was too long. Here's all I need to know. Is a 1996 Hot Springs Grandee worth fixing. I have one indication from a dealership who services them that it is and someone else (independent) who says I'd be better off looking for one of these on Craig's List:

1986 to 1988 Sundance

1996 to 1997 Hercules spas

1995 to 1998 Emerale Spas

1998 to 2000 LA Spas

1998 to 2007 Haven Spas

Most all the Catalina spas.

Thanks!

$50 answer.

That is such a lazy ass pessimists view point.
If every h/s spa had this really going for it - they'd eventually be run out of business.

Well I'd fix that leaky pipe and try again.

You'll never gain anything without trying. After all, just about all used tubs will require some work on them within 6 mos to a year after acquisition. So you're either going to work on it now, or work on it later.

And fwiw, some of those other brands that were mentioned to you are WORSE than the hot springs for internal leak/foam service and repair.

All you have to do is screw up moving one - and that's easy. Just let it rest so that something will poke up thru the bottom and poof, you got a big problem.

I'd start with that one leak and go from there. Don't worry about the foam until you've got the thing fixed first.

Hello -

I found the leak in my tub. It's from a pressure line that originates in the pump compartment and passes around the foot area toward the opposite side of the tub. I put a picture below.

In the picture there's an elbow (A) that passes through the pump compartment's firewall. Then to a short adapter (B), Some type of air hose coupling (C) and then to what appears a long flexible hose (D).

Is the short piece (B) long enough at 1.25" to attach a new air hose coupling (C)?

Thanks for your help!
Brian

Well freakin wow...
Congratulations!
You da man!

Absolutely that piece is long enough to attach a new fitting to. It's actually just about well maybe a teenie teenie bit short, but it'll do!

Be 100% sure you CLEAN that hose of all foam/debris - (I use a wire brush on a drill - ahem, in moderation though), and properly prime it (clear primer please), and then use HEAVY body pvc cement to glue the new fittings on. (Oatey - Green and white can).

I'll tell ya, that is one heck of a blown out pipe!

Congratulations again. My hats off to you.

You're gonna have one heck of a nice tub when you're finished with it.

If it's the nipple, you can drill it out with a 19/64th bit, and just glue in another nipple " title="Very Happy" />

Thank you PageUp and Swine -

As for gluing the nipple, am I simply using the primer and cement (same as what I'll use for the pipe-to-pipe connection)?

Also, I found the heavy cement that PageUp suggested but I'll have to locate a clear primer (the hardware store only sold the purple stuff). How important is the clear versus purple?

Thx,
B

I'm sure I'll be a man on an island, but I don't use primer. In the past, when I've used primer, I have a higher failure rate of leaks in otherwise perfectly good connections.

I no longer use it, and never have issues.

I wouldn't sweat it.

Assuming the nipple is cracked, and this is probably a stupid question, but you're replacing the nipple with a new one, not just gluing it back together, right?

I ended up searching and finding the clear primer - it isn't the same manufacturer as the cement (Oatay). Hope the use of 2 different manufacturers isn't an issue.

Anyway, regarding the nipple... it isn't cracked. I used a rubber mallet to remove the old one because I needed it for the new coupling and I couldn't get one from the 2 local spa places (or hardware store).

Thx, b

Hello,

I need your help identfying a part. I put 3 photos below. In the second photo I point to a gray piece that has a flow sticker. I have to replace that part, what is it?

In photo #3 is the schematic showing the same part.

Can anyone help?

Thx, B

Looks like the air check valve I have between my blower and the spa to keep water from flooding my blower. Like this one: http://spababes.com/glossary.html almost at the bottom of this page.

Thanks for your help. I did some research and confirmed that the piece in my photo is a check valve.

I need someone's help::

Please look at my second photo and help me understand what I have to replace based on the following... My flex pipe has a split that goes the full length from point A to B.

That said, I have to replace the pipe and elbow (B). But since the elbow is butted up against the check valve, I think I have to replace that too. Is there a way to replace the elbow without having to replace the valve?

To make matters worse, the valve is butted up against a coupling (shown with air line) and then butted up against another check valve from the other direction (not shown)!

Check valves seem to sell for near $20. That means if I have to replace both of those I'd be spending over $40 for 2 valves.

Any thoughts on how best to approach this repair would be appreciated.

Perhaps there's a coupling that's large enough to go around my 1.5" elbow with a reducer to fit existing pvc. That way I wouldn't have to replace the check valves?

Can anyone help?

You can try to cut the elbow flush with the check valve and then use a 1.5" PVC ram bit to extract the material out of the check valve. Then just prime and glue new fittings into place.

However, from my experience I would really inspect the check valve carefully to make sure that it is not also cracked. I have fixed hundreds of these and it would amaze me if that check valve is not cracked.

Hopefully you got lucky!

Thank you Dan.

I checked the price of PVC ram bits and see they are about as much as a check valve. Therefore, I think I'll just get a replacement valve. The crack on the PVC only goes as far as the elbow - to the point on the far side of the valve.

In any case, I suppose I'll drop $50+ on the parts (2 valves, elbows, couplings, etc).

Thanks again!

After a month of digging and repairing I finally fixed the 3rd leak. I don't think there's anymore but I still have to run my pumps today to put some pressure on the joints.

I want to post some pictures too the next time this bad boy is up on its side to show all the holes I dug. My neighbor sais I should have just dug out all the foam and replaced it with new pipe. Jerk!

I also found what I think are some good options for troubleshooting leaks without having to refill the tub each time. With the tub up on its side you can plug all the jets using cork plugs. I got a bag of 6 from Hobby Lobby for $2. There are various sizes. Then, take your hose and select one jet to fill.

My hose has a straight sprayer that when set in the jet hole suprisingly had a good seal. With the hose on the water fills all the pipes in that network allowing you to more easily find the leak.

This option was great because its easier than trying to find 4 friends each time you want to set the tub down for leak testing. This test probably won't check for everything but it is helpful.

As for finding leaks uusing dye, I had some success despite posts here that it doesn't work. I went to the local supermarket and bought 4 bottles of black food coloring. That worked great but a better option is UNSWEETENED packets of Kool-Aid. Just get 10 or so packets and pour them in. I recommend black cheery. I also tried this stuff a plumber friend gave me called plumber's trace or something similar (I tossed the empty). It is a dark ink that turns flourescent yellow when it hits water - looks like antifreeze. See example of puddle forming in photo below.

Another tip... When you're removing the harder foam that surrounds a pipe you need to repair, get most of it off. Then clear a path around the pipe (where you cut out the bad section). Lastly, take a 2 or 3 inch strip of corse sandpaper (60 grit) and slip it around the back of the pipe and then basically pull back and forth with both hands - kinda like you would be shining shoes (in an inverse kind of way).

Lastly - I need your help.

1) I have to determine if my heater is bad. How can I do that?

2) If it is bad, I heard from a local spa dealer that there's a better kind than the one I have but it is a retrofit model and is complicated to install. Do you know of this?

My heater is a Watkins No-Fault 5500 cartridge heater and is shown in the image below between the two red arrows.

Thank you!
Brian


In the mean time,

If you have a multi-meter you can check the end of the heater cord for resistance between the two round prongs. If the circuit tests 'open' then the heater is cooked.

The new heater is not too difficult to retro-fit. You would need to replumb most of the 3/4" lines from the circulation pump to the heater, and from the heater back to the fitting near the wall of the motor compartment. There is a kit that you can buy from your local dealer when you get the heater.

Sounds like you're almost out of the woods!

Thank you.

The resistance across the round heater terminals is low and therefore the heater appears to be good.

I see that the heater has two thermocouples, one at each end. The resistance on those is infinite. If I remember correctly the reisitance on those will only change as temperature changes and is not measureable in a live circuit. Roght?

I did notice a flow sensor which is also at infinite resistance. Any thoughts on that?

I ASSume that if the flow sensor is bad then the heater won't heat.

Any troubleshooting tips?

Thank you!

Status:

After five %$&*^ leaks (see photo) I'm finally ready to re-foam the tub. I spray a layer of Great Stuff and then press in remmnants of foam pieces (I pulled out previously) on top. Then another layer of Great Stuff and so on. I hope that's the best approach.

I replaced the low flo pump and ordered the cover so I expect to be up in running in a few weeks when the cover arrives.

Thanks to everyone for their help and I will follow-up with a status.

Note: I do have one more leak that only appears when pump #2 runs and the diverter is to one extreme. Until Spring arrives I'll keep it that way. It is getting too cold here to try and continue with servicing this beast.

I put wood blocks beneath the tub (see photo) so that when it rests down I can more easily see the leaks. I then attached a hand held mirror to a long 1" x 1" so that I could slide it beneath and view up and into the dug out foam areas for those hard to find leaks.

The tub is now foamed back together. I have to set it down, get a cover on it and then fill it up and see if it comes up to temp.

Problem is that we are already in freezing temps and so I have to hope that more pipes don't burst.

To remedy this I poured antfreeze into the filter ports as well as each of the tub ports. Will that be enough to keep things in order or is there something else I should do to keep the water from doing more freeze damage?

Thanks!

Do you know those little heaters that keep your feet warm under an office desk? Get one of those and put in your equipment compartment set at 50 degrees.

In the last post, Pool Boy said to stick a heater in the compartment. Is that assuming that there's water in the tub and the mini circulating pump is on 24/7?

I ask because my tub is empty and there no cover on it.

Any thoughts?

Put the heater in there only with the thoughts of firing it up in a few days. It melts any ice in the components and can make for an easier start up when it's cold.

Thank you for everyone's help. After spending MANY hours and some dollars I was able to chase down all five leaks. I replaced one low flow pump and bought about 30 cans of Great Stuff to fill in what I dug out (I re-used the dug out foam by mixing with Great Stuff when I was re-filling the holes).

My tub cover arrived the day before Christmas Eve and I turned on the tub that afternoon. It was below zero with wind chill but by darn it I was going to get that beast working.

On Christmas Eve it reached 110 degrees. Yahoo! The guests to our little open house enjoyed the afternoon basking in the warmth.

Thanks again for all your help!

B

Hope the holidays are good to you...Enjoy it!

Hello,

I'm posting to get some help on a heater question. FYI, here's my specs again:

Make: Hot Springs, Grandee, 1996, G-361014
Power: 220V, 30 Amp and 20 Amp GFI circuit
Control box: Original (has no markings other than "HotSprings"
Thermostat: Pushbutton knob on side of the housing
Heater Type: Watkins No-Fault 5500 cartridge heater
Circulation pump: Watkins Silent Flow 5002

My tub will heat fine and has reached 110 degrees. There are times when I check it and it'll be down as low as 80 degrees. In order to get it back up to temp I have to reset my circuit breaker.

The low-flo pump is new and working fine. Any thoughts?

If it still has a Silentflo 5002 circ pump, check the low speed of the circ pump. Yes, it has two speeds. Occasionally, low speed dies, while high speed continues to work great. Turning it off and on again gets it going in high speed, where it heats fine. Once it reaches temp- goes back to low speed, dies, yet remains warm enough to ffol the temp sensors into thinking the tub is still warm.

If that's not the case, look for a bad flow switch/dirty filters, stuck relay, possibly an intermittent or slightly corroded control thermistor, or a bad heater breaker.

I checked the low-flo pump and it always seems to be running (not sure of the speed). The filters are new and so that shouldn't be the problem. I can hear the heater relay turn on and off when I bring the thermostst dial past setting 3.

The circuit breaker appears to be fine yet I'm not sure what could go wrong with it. Perhaps you can explain.

I checked the heater resistance and it is about 10 ohms at the lowest (it tends to read about 15 to 20 ohms). When I turn up the thermost past 3 and hear the relay kick in I check my home's electric meter and it spins quickly. When the relay is off the meter spins very slow. I know this is a cheap way of reading ampergae but I trust it gives a good indication.

That leaves the flow switch or the thermister. Is there a way to validate the flow switch? What about the thermister?

Thanks much!

I checked the low-flo pump and it always seems to be running (not sure of the speed). The filters are new and so that shouldn't be the problem. I can hear the heater relay turn on and off when I bring the thermostst dial past setting 3.

The circuit breaker appears to be fine yet I'm not sure what could go wrong with it. Perhaps you can explain.

I checked the heater resistance and it is about 10 ohms at the lowest (it tends to read about 15 to 20 ohms). When I turn up the thermost past 3 and hear the relay kick in I check my home's electric meter and it spins quickly. When the relay is off the meter spins very slow. I know this is a cheap way of reading ampergae but I trust it gives a good indication.

That leaves the flow switch or the thermister. Is there a way to validate the flow switch? What about the thermister?

Don't test when the meter spins very quickly, it's working fine at that point. Wait until you turn it up, and the meter doesn't spin.

I don't understand what I'm supposed to further test when the meter is spinning slowly. All of my tests mentioned don't matter whether the meter spins slow or fast: filters are new, relay engages, and low-flo pump is ALWAYS running (not sure at what speed, since it sounds the same all the time).

Is there a way to test the flow sensor or thermistor?

Sorry, I was reffering to troubleshooting while the meter is whipping around. You mentioned, "When I turn up the thermost past 3 and hear the relay kick in I check my home's electric meter and it spins quickly. " I was just letting you know that your poor man's amp meter works. And if the heater's pulling amps, it's good.

You're going to have a hard time troubleshooting until you turn it up and the meter doesn't spin. The flow switch doesn't get voltage until high speed is energized, and there won't be enough flow to close the switch until high speed is energized (by turning up the heat)

You can guess, and start throwing parts at it, but if it heats initially, it's a safe bet the flow switch and thermistor are both good.

Update....

I previously said that in order to get my tub heating again I have to reset the circuit breakers. What I found out this week is that even by doing that the heater doesn't always kick back on. Only a small percentage of the time will it heat.

What happens every time is that the relay switches on and off as I increase and decrese the thermistat (about setting 3 of a 9 scale). The low flow pump always runs (not sure the speed).

Based on this my guess is that the flow switch might be bad. Then again, if the flow switch is bad will I hear the heater relay click on and off?

My only other thought is that the circuit breaker could be bad. I'm not sure how to determine this. I know the GFCI reset works when tested.

Perhaps I have a make/break connection in the wiring someplace.

Any thoughts?

If the flow switch is bad, you will not hear the heater relay or flow switch relay open or close. (there are both)

When you turn it up, there are actually two clicks at the same time. One click is the flow switch relay, the other is the heater relay. By unplugging one or the other (one at a time), you should hear a click when either one is unplugged (when the heater is operational)




You might need to drop the control box to test if the heater relay is working properly.