Brett Aqualine BL-46 circuit. 240v, 5.5mW heater wont heat.

1998 Morgan Spa with Brett Aqualine circuit board.
Everything works except for the heat.
I have replaced the heating element, the circuit board, and had a spa technician out (told me to replace circuit board and was upselling me to the $1000 complete overhaul if that didn't work).
I have followed several of the online trouble shooting guides to no availe. I believe I've narrowed it down quite a bit though...

I held a lighter up to the hi limit thermometer and it tripped and everything shut off...so I know it is working.

I drained the water from the element housing and that tripped the flow sensor and shut everything down, so I know the flow sensor is working.

Brand new filter

I put an Ohm meter up to the two element terminals and got about 11ohms. However, I never get any voltage registering at the terminals when I measure to the tips of both terminals.
If I measure terminal to neutral I get 122 on each terminal seperately. But, I can only get this when I disconnect the hi limit relay from the contactor. Otherwise, even with the heater light on the circuit board turned on, I can't get any power to register (to neutral)...this may be normal, I don't know.
.
Is this a contactor problem?

What do I do next...?
I"m pretty amateur here, so explain in a fairly simple manor please.


I have pictures if that would help...
Anders

I had a problem like this with my buddy's tub. The high limit switch was shorting to the ground and not completing the circuit to the contactor.
Does the tub heat up when you have jump the high limit switch? If so then replace that.

I'm still learning myself but have found that in my neck of the woods the service techs are terrible.

Drew

how do I jump the hi limit...what exactly does that mean?

how do I jump the hi limit...what exactly does that mean?

With my experience with bret aquiline products running at 240 is this:
You will always have L1 live to the hearter element so you will always have 120 checking from the white wire to ground.
The high limit and presure switch are ran in a series to the second contactor which supplies L2 to the heater element. You will only get 240 if both contactors are pulled and if anything is wrong with the high limit or the presure switch you will not have 240 to the element and thus no heat. You have TEMPORARILY jump the high limit and presure switch to diagnose a problem( take the terminals off the switch and conect them together, thus jumping over the switch). But monitor everything closely! Make sure the pump is working and the water is not getting too hot. If it heats then something is wrong with the switches.

Always remember to respect electricity like a tempromental woman.

Drew

OK, still need help.
see attached picture. again, everything works except for the heat, replaced every part (element, circuit board, etc) except for the contactor.
L = live line terminals
N= neutral
E = element terminals
C = contactor
HL = high limit relay to contactor
f= flow sensor
G= ground

When I measure voltage from L1 to N I get ~120, same with L2 to N.

When I measure from E1 to N I get 0 (when heater indicator light is on and there are no error messages).

However, when I disconnect HL (high limit relay) from the circuit board, I then get ~120 from E1 to N and E2 to N.

I never get voltage from E1 to E2. ( I know nothing about electricity, nor what volts or ohms are)

I do measure 12ohm from E1 to E2.

Interstingly, I hook L1 to E1 directly and L2 to E2 directly and still no heat. This must be an element problem then, right? It is brand new! Before I order another, is there a way to make sure everything else is working?

At this point I am very frustrated, I have been fiddling with this for 4 months ordering parts, having service techs out to the house. I could have paid for an entire spa pack by now, but I just can't help thinking there is something very simple I'm missing, especially since the thing worked fine from the guy I bought if from (I used it at his house before I bought it!). I figured something broke in the move and started by replacing the corroded element that had a broken terminal. However, since then I have never gotten the element to heat up. WTF? please please help. I am about to have to suck it up and pay the price of replacing the entire electrical. Do I just have it wired wrong?

I will note, the ground has not been run from the G terminal to the ground in the GFCI box... I still need to, but will that change anything?

thanks
Anders

picture with above message

you havent mentioned if you are testing this with the pump running ? That will make a huge diff -- you need to have all valves open and getting jet action inside the tub in order for the heat to activate. The item you have marked F is the presure sensor/switch -if you dont have suficiant presure from the pump running it will not allow the heat to come on.
If you do have suficiant pressure you may need to turn the adjustment out slightly on the face of that switch. 1/4 to 1/2 turn counter clockwise will usually do it.

I see in your pic that all the power supply wires are black - one has blue tape on it, is it possible that wire is actually the neutral. Most electricians mark the nuetrals not hot wires -- if it is -- its hooked up to a Line terminal.
Just another thing to double check.

first thing I would like you to do is to measure for voltage at the element terminals. Do this by placing a probe from the meter on each terminal of the element. When the spa calls for heat, you will get 240V at the element if the circuit is good. If not, we'll have to dig a little deeper.

If you do get 240V at the two terminals, disconnect power to the spa, remove both wires from the terminals of the element, and set your multitester to OHM's reading, low scale. Use the probes as before to obtain your reading, measuring on the studs of the element. Your reading should be 9-20 OHMs, with 11-13 being normal. If you don't get this, as in infinite (no reading), you got a bum element.

charger, that is what I was trying to say in my last message. I get nothing from element terminal to element terminal when it calls for heat.

Also as stated in the previous message, I get 12 ohm through the heating element (not infinity).

water is flowing well, pressure/flow switch does not turn anything off. I have jumped it before.


what next.

Hi Billy, I may be missing something, but what was your reading between Line one, and Line Two. 220? (Line to neutral, and line to neutral means little) Black to Red Baby!!!! " title="Wink" />

I doubt this. Most people will rarely be able to notice 'HEAT' as in 'WARM' or 'HOT' from a 5500 watt element in a hot tub. This is the equivalent of trying to heat two to four hundred gallons of water with 4 blow dryers. Which means, it takes time. You would need to do this for at least 30 minutes and monitor temperature rise over that period using an accurate digital thermometer. If you had an ammeter and could measure the current draw of the system, I'm sure that once you powered it up configured this way, you would've seen at least 20+ amps being drawn from your line, which means you're definitely heating.

You've tested your element already and found you had continuity... 12 ohms which is normal. Your element is ok. Since you noted:

I would suspect that the T-92 high limit relay (Item C in your photo) is defective. This is a common high failure item and if you follow the line from the heater terminal to it, then measure the voltage on the other side of the contact. Better yet, since you've replaced the element, go ahead and replace that relay while you're at it - it should've been replaced when you replaced the element anyway. The coil voltage for it should be in the 115v range otherwise it's a special order item: http://spapartsnet.com/Electrical-Parts... 1_0_1.html You say you don't know anything about electricity, well you've done pretty good so far explaining your situation which is a lot more than I can say for the tons of calls we get daily.... just check back and post what you find so that the folks that follow the forum can chime in with you and check to see if what they're saying has helped. Last thing... (Has nothing to do with your troubleshooting issue): Whatever fool wired this hot tub without a ground? (Hope it wasn't you my man - in commercial electrican circles jobs like this make the bulletin boards all the time for humorous anti-diy fodder) If I got a call on this one, I'd either refuse to work on it, work on it and leave with the entire electrical supply disconnected, fix the ground issue (and install a GFCI), or call the freakin cops " title="Twisted Evil" /> If I were you I wouldn't do anything else until a proper ground line is run from the house box all the way to the tub - NO, do not substitute a ground rod - it's not the same and leads to a false sense of security. This thing is not safe.

I have a hot tub that hasnt been in use for 4 months. I filled it up andturned it on and the jets work but it doesnt seem like its getting hot. i have had it on for 3 to 4 hours. how long does it normally take to start heating up. I also unscrewed the control box and didnt mess with any wires but now it wont even turn on. the jets or light. its a brett auqualine EM-203t. any ideas?

OK, ordered the relay; will let you know what happens.

When hooking the L1 to E1 and L2 to E2, I said it wasn't heating because I was feeling the element housing directly...assuming it would get warm if the element came on. I did not give the water time to heat up.

OK, no luck with the replacement relay.

So, in summary, I have replaced the element, relay, entire circuit board and nothing has solved the problem of no heat. That leads me to believe that there is no problem with the equipment, rather it is the wiring. Am I correct in deducing this?


>Hi Billy,
>I may be missing something, but what was your reading between Line >one, and Line Two. 220?
>(Line to neutral, and line to neutral means little)
>Black to Red Baby!!!!

L1 to L2 I get nothing on the voltimeter. Shouldn't I be getting something?

This was all wired by a friend who had previous industrial experience and a set of tools, not an actual electrician.

My question would be: if it is wired incorrectly, why am I getting power to everything else?

Do I hire an electrician to start over from scratch?
I have a GFCI breaker.

if your spa is a convertable model, as in it can run in either 120V or 240V mode, everything except the heater will run on just one leg of the 240V. If you are missing the other leg of the 240V, that would explain a lot. Check for 240V before the GFI, after the GFI and at the tub where the line connects to the spa's L1 and L2. I think by doing that you will discover your problem.

Hi Billy, Line one to Line two should give you 220 volts. When you read 110 volts from both legs to neutral, you may be reading the same leg twice. The voltage will come into the pack and pump, and return to its' break of line two. If you have a "Space Saver" breaker in the panel, it may be only picking up one side of your panel. This condition will only effect the componants in the spa that are 220V operated. Everything else is relying on the neutral to complete the circuit. Your heater will not have a complimenting phase to light up. I hope you also addressed the other wiring issues Pageup mentioned." title="Exclamation" /> Please don't ever bypass componants to try to achieve an end result. This practice may end up in property damage, and personal injury. Should you shoot for the Electrician? Yes The liability of the safety, and code issues are included in his cost. The time and energy wasted on chasing "Ghosts" are also included. Let us know what you find " title="Smile" />