A long story that I'll try to make short.

I got a used (1997?) Hot Springs Classic Model F hot tub. It was configured as 115v. I hired an electrician to run a dedicated circuit converting the tub to 230v along the way. He made all the connections in the tub control box, filled it with water and turned it on. Problem was the pump was not running right. It was making a terribly loud noise and would not run the jets. It seemed as if it was not priming. Electrician said I needed a new pump. The heat worked great though. Had a 110 degree tub but no jets.

Called a spa technician out to the house. He said the tub was hooked up incorrectly by the electrician. (Said the pump was not being supplied enough voltage?) He wired it correctly and got the jets working great. The next day the tub had dropped to 90 degrees. It appeared to me as if the heater was now not working. Called technician back out. He said everything was hooked up correctly and that the tub was heating (Not sure how he came to this conclusion). Two days later tub down to 60 degrees. Called technician out again and he said this time it was the thermal sensors gone bad. I asked him not to replace anything because this was something I could do myself. I was also not feeling as if the technician knew what the problem was but was just guessing.

Through this site, I was able to locate the high-limit reset switch with the tape over it on the heater. I pressed as hard as I could with the eraser end of a pencil, but it didn't seem to do anything. I don't believe this was tripped.

Where do I go from here?

Thanks for any and all replies.

What is the serial number on this tub? You said it may be a '97 with a question mark. They made quite a few changes from '96-'98 so that may make a difference in solving the problems.

Couple of things to check:

1. It still may be wired wrong, what do you have for a breaker/breakers? Is there just a 50amp or is there a 30amp and a 20amp? Make sure neither is tripping. Also, the jumpers to convert to 220V may not be configured correctly in the control box.

2. Is the power light a solid red or is it flashing?

3. If the tub was at 110 degrees it may need the thermistors replaced as he said because it should not get that hot.

4. The heater may be bad even though it was working. Do you have a meter?

Thanks for the quick reply Dan.

I don't have the serial number with me, but I'm pretty sure it's a 97 or 98. The spa was purchased new in 1998.

1. The electrician chose to wire it with one 50am breaker. I've comapred the jumpers in the control box with the schmatic in the manual. It looks correct to me.

2. The power light is on solid. No flashing.

3. The users manual states that the tub can get to 110. I like my tub nice and hot, so when the heater was working, I just set it to the maximum.

4. I have a voltage/ohm meter. I'm just not sure where to hook it up or what I'm supposed to be looking at.

Thanks again Dan. This forum is great!

Mark

Just a guess, but I suspect the tech, when repairing the opriginal issue, put the heater on a the same "phase" of electricity. It's a 220v heater, but I'd GUESS that the tech has two legs of the same 110v line powering it, instead of two seperate 110v lines that make a true 220 power source. It's probably the easiest thing to test, and the first thing that needs to be eliminated in our process of elimination. On a 97 or 98 classic, Find the main terminal block. This is where the wires from the breaker attach to the spa control box, named the IQ 2000 Terminals 2 and 4 are used to power the heater only. You can identify thse terminals because the wires on the top of these terminals go directly to the 2 heater relays located directly above them. (One black, one white) Set your meter for high voltage, and meter between these terminals (This means put one meter lead on each terminal at the same time) You Should get 220v, but if they're on the same phase, you will get 0. If you get 0, test voltage to terminal 2 and terminal 4 one at a time to ground. You will likley get 110v at each terminal, while getting 0 between them. Give it a shot, I'd love to hear the results " title="Very Happy" />

:" title="Question" /> Swine, can this tub even run properly at all with a 50 amp breaker? I'm not an electrician and maybe it can but not without significant changes in the control box. You may be able to answer that, I can't. The proper configuration is to have a 30 amp, 2 pole, 230 VAC breaker and a 20amp, 1 pole, 115VAC breaker. The 30Amp breaker should have both hot #10 wires going to terminals 2+4 The 20Amp breaker should have one hot #12 wire going to terminal #3 and one Neutral #12 wire going to terminal #6 There should also be a jumper on the terminal block between terminals 5+6. There are also several small jumpers that need to be checked as well, they are located close to the middle of the control box. A 220V converted tub like the Classic should have these tiny jumpers on #1, #2, and #3. There should be a wiring diagram on the back of the IQ2000 control box cover. This is all shown there under 220V convertable models.

Of course it shouldn't be that way, but at this point, the horse has already left the barn. It should be exactly as you describe. But it can run problem free if the wire is the right size, and split properly on only one 50 amp breaker. It will make troubleshooting more difficult, and can be a little confusing since it's so easy to miswire this way. Plenty of electrcians have the habit of doing 1st, and asking later. This seems to fits that category. Very easy to screw up the polarity of 220v lines when wired in this fashion, and I'm guessing the elec ran several wires on each side of the 50 amp breaker, and then the tech plopped two of the same phase to term. #4 and term #2 while repairing what else the elec had done wrong orignially (soundsl like he had the 110v terminals 3,5 wired 220v without the jumper between 5/6 also, but that's just a guess as well. But it fits so nicely with the rest of my guess that I'm rolling with it " title="Smile" />

Thanks Swine & Dan for your input. I'll take some readings in the box and post my results later. I'm also going to try and take a picture of the connections inside the control box. Like I said, I think the terminals are all jumpered correctly. I've examined this like 100 times, but I'm far from an expert on these things. Hopefully a picture will help.

I did make sure the small jumpers on the circuit board were set correctly per the manual for a 220v install. Only strange thing is that there are two more jumpers on the board that are not mentioned anywhere in the manual. So I just left them alone.

Thanks again. You guys are great.

Mark

Pictures would definitely be helpful, also try and get a pic of the connections to the 50 amp if possible. The extra jumpers are there for use in other models that are configured differently, so pay no attention to them. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this for you.

OK, I have a lot of information now.

Per Swine's instructions, I took the following voltage readings:

Terminals 2 & 4 - 0 Volts
Terminals 2 and Ground - 110 Volts
Terminals 4 and Ground - 110 Volts

Seems like Swine is probably correct...it does not appear to be wired correctly.

I've also got some pictures for you. One is a photo of the connections to the control box.



Another is a scan of the schematics found in the manual (It sounds like you guys already have this...but just in case).



And the last is a little diagram of how I see the connections being made in case you cant make it out in the photo.



I couldnt access easily the connections at the one 50amp breaker, but I see four wires coming into the tub which are connected as follows:

Red - Terminal 4
Black - Terminal 3
White - Terminal 6
Ground - Terminal 7

Additionally, there are jumpers accross the following:

2 and 3
5 and 6

Thanks again for all the help. I really appreciate it.

Mark

Thanks for the pics-it's a big help. If the breaker is wired properly, it looks like it should be working. The polarity is fine on the control box end. It's possible the breaker just broke. Try metering out the voltage at the breaker. Might want to try just turning the breaker off, then on again...it *might* solve the problem is the breaker is just stuck. The electrician didn't use a "slim" breaker did he? Without a nother pic, it appears either the breaker is bad, or the breaker is not wired properly. Could you take a pic of the breaker, too. I'd like to see that as well, and we'll go from there. Sorry if this reply is all over the place-hope it makes sense " title="Very Happy" /> " title="Very Happy" />

OK, I'll take some pics of the connections at the breaker. But just to be clear, are you saying that the connections in the control box are correct, but the voltage readings accross terminals 2 and 4 are NOT? This leads you to believe the connections at the breaker are wrong?

Previously you said that if I read zero voltage accross 2-4 but 110v accross 2-ground and 4-ground that the terminals are on the same "phase". Both terminals on the same phase is not the proper wiring of the heater. Do I have that right?

Pictures of the breaker connections coming...

Thanks again.

Mark

"But just to be clear, are you saying that the connections in the control box are correct, but the voltage readings accross terminals 2 and 4 are NOT?"

Exactly

Thanks again!

Here is a picture of the breaker box at the spa. The breaker is a 50amp.



Thanks to your help, I feel very close to a solution. Thanks for hanging in there with me.

Mark

Looks like it may be hooked up in a way that would allow it to work, but I only will work on tubs that are hooked up based on the exact wiring diagrams, so I am not positive. I'm sure Swine will check back in for a look.

Here's a shot in the dark, is the summer timer switch on the outside of the IQ2000 box (right side and may be under some tape) turned to 'off' or 'on'? It should be set to off. If it is 'on' the heater would come on for a brief few seconds before turning off for a period of time. This could explain the Tech getting a reading on his amp clamp that it was heating.

It's wired not according to spec, but it should be fine. I suspect the breaker is bad, OR, the breaker supplying power to the subpanel is 1/2 tripped, or is bad. What we need to do is find out where the problem is. To do that, we need to measure the voltage coming into the subpanel, at the two main "hot" lugs of the Bus Bar (The black and Red, NOT on the breaker, but coming from the house into the subpanel). If you get ~240, then check voltage again at the red and black of the breaker. If you don't get ~240, then we'll go from there, but 1st things 1st " title="Very Happy" />

Ok, I understand. I'll take the readings tonight and post results then.

I'll also check the breaker in the main panel and make sure it isn't "half-tripped". (Duh...I should of thought of that one already)

Thanks again,

Mark

Swine, your a genius!

I called my wife after I got your last message and asked her to check the breaker in the main box. I told her that I (you) suspected it was half-tripped. She told me it looked fine, but she reset it anyway.

When I came home, I was all ready to take my new voltage readings when I noticed that beautiful green light that said the tub was "ready". I checked the temperature and sure enough....105 degrees.

I couldnt be happier. I've been struggling with this for two months. I've been through one electrician and one spa technician. Nobody thought to check the main breaker until you came along.

I'd really like to repay you somehow for all your help in troubleshooting.

Thanks so much,

Mark

Yay! ~Enjoy " title="Smile" />

Just had to chime in on this one... half tripped double breakers will fool everyone. I once spent 2 hours trying to figure out one of these on an old jacuzzi tub... what a nightmare when that damn breaker looks right, but yet, it ain't. Last example on this page... circa 1998 or something like that: http://spasupport.com/electrical/main/burnedwires.html What a pain in the ass this thing was. It only takes one to never forget. Great job SW. Thanks for the good photos Mark - that's the difference between success and failure in remote -virtual- troubleshooting.