Hi, All! Any opinions out there on the ARCTIC spa model? I don't see any comments (good or bad) out there in cyberspace. Performance? Service problems? Pro's/Con's? Category: low,- medium,- high-end? Thanks in advance to all who reply! " title="Very Happy" />

If you're talking about the same Arctic spas that's out of Canada, I'd think they might be a pretty good hot tub from what I've seen online. Their owners manual is pretty good too. You'll find it at http://goarctic.com They're using the Gecko Mspa controller, and no manufacturer can exist for very long with shoddy construction methods or the lack of dealer support. That said, in the long run, all spa and hot tub manufacturer reputations live and die based on local support from the dealer they purchased it from.

Arctic has some good components however they haven't had a good history of being consistent with how they build any particular model. They also seem to put more emphasis on marketing and flash than actual long term engineering. I don’t care whether a spa has full foam or thermal pane type insulation as long as it is done right either way and I don’t think they do it right. Just the fact that the plumbing is left unsupported and all of the insulation is sprayed on the cabinet walls where it may have a tendency to collect moisture through all of the ledge type protrusions on that cabinet design and cause the weight of the foam to pull at the cabinet or come off bothers me. I also think that for the size and pump systems in most of their models they could update the filter system a bit. These are just a few things although I see many that they could improve on.

IMO, there are many other manufactures to consider before them.

Arctic is a very well made spa, you will get alot of negative feed back on these sites from people involved with other manufactures.
Where are you from? I am a dealer in Oh, if you have any questions or need help finding a dealer let me know. Try to find some Arctic owners, they are the best and most unbias way to find out how they like their tubs. Have a great day, and good luck finding a tub. Chad

they have a very short warranty leaving you some potentially high repair bills.Check out Cal Saps lifetime warranty heater.

i'm a service tech - unbiased opinion - these are actually far advanced spas with an insight into manufacture that others could learn from - warranty is exceptional, running cost also exceptional due to their unique insulation heatlock. service is relatively easy - all sides access - no foam on shell = easy leak repairs, quality equipment and jets - in the end it all comes down to personal preference once you're at this end of the market

My opinion on the newer models of Arctic? here they are:

Pro's:

>better heat retention ability due to the thick foam sprayed on the cabinet
>better heat retention from a very well sealed and thick spa cover
>good looking spa cabinet
>good base design in that you don't need a solid surface for them
>ease in repairing leaks

Con's:

>The heat retention in the cabinets can lead to premature failure of electrical components, as heat kills electronics and motors.
>lack of support for plumbing (these things flex as it is, leaving them to hang can't be a great thing)
>seemingly cheap jet construction (they are more flmsy than competetion)
>styling. They have jumpseats that if you are more than 250 pounds, you aren't fitting in them!

Neutral's:
The better insulation and design uses the waste heat from the motor to help maintain the temperature of the spa. Yet, the motor is always in this heat as well.

So, in summary, if you are on the light average or skinny side, and live in the climate where it never hits 80's, these are probably good for you.

I think the savings verses the anticipated higher cost of maintaining worn out components isn't worth it. A well insulated shell will have good heat retention but will also allow the components outside air to breathe. That is my humble opinion.

We are seriously considering an Arctic.
Several of the larger tubs have a very therapeutic seat (inverted triangle) that has the best traps/shoulder massage we have found bar none. They place one 5" rotating jet for each trap and one three" rotating jet for each
outer shoulder (4 jets total). If you want to see what I mean go to
goarctic.com and look at the Tundra seat with inverted triangle design.
But on the forums, Arctic gets abused for aggressive marketing
techniques and also gets drug through the full foam/TP discussions with occasional rub because they don't do it the conventional way. The
tubs seem to be extremely well constructed overall. Full composite
floor, self supporting shell, 56 frame waterway pumps, 5.5kw titanium coated heater, thick cover, awesome power to their jets, a large number of jets that "do something" other than just shoot streams of water. The jets are shaft bearing designs that seem to spin much freer than other rotating jets. Can anyone speak to replacement costs of Arctic parts? Are they mostly "off the shelf" or proprietary?

We're also looking at a Sundance Optima and possbily a Jacuzzi J365.
The Sundance simply doesn't have the therapy level of the Arctic. Their
massage seat shoots streams, which to me does not provide for a true
massage feel. But Sundance has been around for some time. Am wet
testing Jacuzzi soon, but they probably will fall into the therapy
level of Sundance based on their jets. Didn't care for HS motomassage and D1 didn't really have a tub that fit us. Wife couldn't stand the Master
dealer and I didn't care for their layouts anyway.

Is there anything of substance that should warn us off of Arctic? I've asked about the heated environment in which the pumps operate, but if I recall, I was told their max operating temp is rated well above the max cabinet operating temp of about 120F. I think it was around 140F-150F.

a previous response addresses the heat of the motors causing premature failure - bullshit - pumps run hotter than the temperatures in a tub, so are therefore perfectly fine in these conditions - just setting the record straight

Hi Tubdawg,

Is there anything of substance that should warn us off of Arctic?


I have a Arctic Spa Cub and it's a really nice tub having two of the frame 56 motors. The jets are well positioned and the output from the jets is quite good. If it weren't for all of the problems with this tub, i'd recommend it.

The rubber hoses they use in place of PVC tubing with this tub have been nothing but problems for me. We've had the tub for almost 2 years and the longest it's gone without a hose failure is about 4-5 months. Those hoses are terrible, they continuously blow off the PVC connections and your tub is completely drained in a matter of minutes, even worse is that it happens frequently in the winter, so if it breaks and you're not around, the tub is gonna be toast due to freezing. I'm really surprised there hasn't been a recall on arctic spas, but the shop i bought it from assures me that i'm the only one with this problem..... for some reason i don't believe them.

Another issue is with the water intakes that are on the bottom wall of the tub that have these covers that never stay on, so you're left with four open water intake holes about 4 inches in diameter without them in place.

Well just my 2 cents on the problems i've experienced with the Arctic Spa Cub tub i have.




I've asked about the heated environment in which the pumps operate, but if I recall, I was told their max operating temp is rated well above the max cabinet operating temp of about 120F. I think it was around 140F-150F.

I live in an area where maximum summer temps shouldn't pose a problem with pump overheating.

Yeah Arctic Spas are Great if you want to burn your house down. They try to sell you on this so called "Heat Lock System". How hot do your pumps have to operate to heat 400 gallons of water through a thick acrylic shell. There is already 2 houses that have burnt down in my area because of that heat lock system. Think about it. Have a great day!

Cal saps??? The Arctic Warranty is 5 years on most models and 10 years for the Special Edition models. Lifetime warranty on shell. Our value-priced Coyote line has a different warranty. Full details available at http://www.arcticspas.com and http://www.coyotespas.com Tom

PUMPS: We now use pumps from EMG (in Italy) with an Ingress Protection rating of 55, which means they are well sealed against dust and moisture. Commonly used spa pumps have an IP of 0. (See http://www.certifygroup.com/pages/ip.htm) PROPRIETARY: IMO this is a red herring. Most automobile makers use proprietary parts, and getting parts is not a problem for major brands with a good distribution network. Where Arctic uses proprietary parts, they are designed to our specifications for greater strength, tighter tolerances, or improved design, but they still have to be cost effective and often are interchangeable with off-shelf parts. OPERATING TEMP: Here is a quote from one of our engineers (internal memo, Dec. 5, 2005): "The pumps in our spas are also in a very hot environment.... EMG has designed their motors to forced air cooling. They use air flow over the aluminium finned housing to cool the motor. The use of aluminium and the large surface area of the outside of the motor make this design an improvement over restrict the amount of air flow by running the air through the centre of the motor and use a steel housing which does not conduct the heat as well." Arctic Spas were designed for cold climates, specifically engineered to retain heat. In warm climates such as Florida, Gran Canarias, and Cyprus, where there is danger of overheating, we ignore all that cold-weather engineering and replace the insulated doors with screened, louvred doors. Ironic, I know. " title="Confused" /> Tom

Charger has generally offered some fair comments, though what he has as "Cons" appear to be things he has heard from people unfamiliar with the product.

HEAT RETENTION: Addressed in another post.

UNSUPPORTED PLUMBING: It's common for an Arctic dealer to hand a shopper a piece of our Reflex Torsion Hose and say, "Some of our competitors tell you our plumbing flops around. Here, see how flimsy and flexible this stuff is." Most customers can't bend it without a great deal of effort. "Can you see that hose flopping around when the pump cuts in?" Well, no. All you have to do is to put your hand in and try to move that "unsupported plumbing" to recognize the myth for what it is.

FLIMSY JETS: First time I've heard this one! It certainly doesn't match my experience - but pop some jets out of different brands and decide for yourself!

TIGHT SEATS: Not all our models have moulded seats. If you are a larger person, try the contoured chairs (you may be surprised) but by all means examine our models with more open seating.

Tom

And what brand do you sell?

Tom

This member has been challenged to either support his statement with evidence, or remove it.

The Tubs That burnt down were in Alaska.. I guess you can consider it a cold climate. And I use to sell arctic spa and thats how i know. How about they have to wet test every tub a dealer gets because their fittings come loose when they are shiped. The pumps are running alot to keep the cabinet and the water warm. So about how much electricity are you really using? Think about that. Arctic Spas warrenty says, "Warrenty will be void if the tub is damaged by improper chemical balance, ice in the spa, overheating the spa." No person can ever get a perfect water balance. Arctic spa Warrent says, "The Light lenses, fuses, headrests, filters, and cabinets are warrantied to be free of defect in workmanship and materials at the time of delivery." So when its delivered your screwed. And like i said before 2 houses have burnt down because of these tubs.

A quote from James Keirstead, one of the owners of Arctic Spas: "This statement is categorically untrue."

Wow, I have never heard so much about a spa in one place-- glad to have found you all here

I posted a question already about the spa line im interested in - Infinity spas

My Arctic Fox spa has worked fine for about 1 year, then one day I opened the top and most of the water was gone. It took the dealer in Norther Virginia a month to get a repair man out to fix. He didn't. It took another month for him to come again. Still no fix, same leak same place. Again another month of calling. This time the man said it could not be fixed. Now the dealer nor Canada are returning my calls. The dealer says they are in conflict with Canada. So I have no spa, since July and a lot of run around.

To Jeffmocha and jscott One of the reasons why I am on the forums is because it gives us another chance to help our customers who report problems. Please email me directly (info@goarctic.com) and I will see what I can do to assist you. In your email, please give me the serial number of your spa (you will find it on your sales invoice and also on the ETL plate at the bottom of the front side). Thanks in advance. Tom G

Yes, we do expect our dealers to wet test every unit before it goes out to the customer. It's called a pre-delivery inspection, or PDI, and it protects the consumer.

Cars, RVs, new houses, yachts, hot tubs -- all get a PDI before being turned over to the customer. Anything that has worked loose is tightened; anything missing is replaced. Everything that should be working is checked. In the case of a boat or RV, all systems are tested for leaks -- propane, fresh water, grey water, waste water. All fittings are checked, all functions are tested, any deficit is corrected.

Deucehero, disgruntled ex-employee, seems to want you to think that doing a PDI is a bad thing, that doing a PDI means that our product (and your car, your RV, your new house, your boat) is junk.

Do you believe that?

Tom

I've heard from jscott and it appears that he and the dealer have worked things out. Despite the issues, he wrote, "We love the tub."

Interesting opening to a list of complaints. I have not heard from this individual and I suggest that this was a spurious post from a competing dealer or salesperson.

Dude, the HEATER heats the water...got it?!

The residual heat from the pump only adds to the thermostatic efficiency of the tub. It's a feature. Are you lying or just ignorant?!

Neither. Are you always this discourteous?

Indeed, I don't disagree with you. The Alberta Research Council's Thermal Performance Test of Spas (http://www.arcticspas.com/downloads/performance/Thermal%20Performance%20Test%20of%20Spas.pdf ) concluded that "It is beneficial to the overall thermal efficiency of the system if some of the heat generated by the pump/motor can be retained in the system. In this case the heat will not be wasted energy but will contribute to the heating efficiency." (p. 6). You might as well be quoting from the study!

We claim that in consequence of the efficiency of the product, an Arctic Spa will maintain its temperature (indoors at 20 C) indefinitely with the heater disconnected and the pumps running. That is easy to demonstrate. Your belief or disbelief will have no effect on the facts.


PS In another post, formulaben is looking for parts for an Arctic Spa. Curious. http://spaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=11294&highlight=#11294

grayed, you need to go back and look at who I am referring my quote to. My comments were to duecehero, not you. The guy is saying that Arctic Spas are responsible for houses burning down...and yet you jump on me? I think Acrtic could do with a better communications officer...yikes.

Yes, I see that now--and should have seen it then. You're right, and I apologize.
Tom

I bought an Arctic Spa in September 2002. Kodiak Signature Series, 33 jets, 2 pump, Northern Lights package and forever floor. Did lots of comparison shopping and was very pleased with this purchase. In 2004 the 6" Northern Light lense cracked and it began to leak. Dealer replaced lense under warranty and tub seemed fine. Since then I've had the lense replaced 3 more times because of leaking and now it is leaking again. As far as I can tell this large light fixture is no longer available and I'm wondering if this is a chronic problem. My warranty claim has been rejected because it's been more than 5 years. As far as I'm concerned this is still the original problem. Has anyone else had any problems with this large light fixture and a leaky tub?

Problems with the large light lens have been traced largely to the use of biguanide/hydrogen peroxide sanitizers, which are known to be unkind to the polycarbonate lenses. An alternative lens made of xylene has proven to be more compatible, and this is readily available through your dealer. The older polycarbonate lens and a coated lens are also available. Ask your dealer to check with his customer service rep at the factory to determine which of these will work best for you.

geenooo, I am convinced the problem you have described with the leaky lamp is a design flaw for that model and year. I have the exact same tub and have had the exact same problem. First lamp started leaking after a couple of years. Then a year later the 2nd one failed, then the 3rd, and I can't remember if there was a 4th, but the latest one was installed in the fall of 2005. It is the new plastic material. The person that installed it was a friend of the local dealer who was not from the area, but what I found interesting is that he had mentioned that he has seen this problem with this tub several times in the past. His theory was that there is not enough support under the lounge chair where the lamp is located. He wedged a 2X4 between the floor and the bottom of the acrylic shell where the lamp is to help support it and we have been careful not to sit above the lamp or put much weight there when getting in and out of the lounger. I think the problem is still with the lamp itself as the Arctic shells are pretty thick. I have been using chlorine or bromine the whole time except for year 1 (2002). At this point my spa is out of warranty also, but Blue Falls should do something about this because it is definitely a problem. I would just as soon have some kind of a plug installed to fill the hole rather than continue having to replace lamps.

Thanks Tahoejoe!! I received a new and improved (?) lenses (3rd one) from Blue Falls this spring and I am waiting for a local hot tub dealer to install it. I'm going to try the 2x4 and cross my fingers. I'm sure we're not the only ones with this problem! Question. Have you tried different types and/or brands of silicon for your repairs?

Gentlemen

I'm sorry to hear of your lens problems. I have combed our technical forum to see if I could find something that would help.

First, here is a post from one of our R&D staff:

I believe there are a couple of different (but related) issues:
[*:2wcs7mw2]When the outer flange is cracked this is partly due to over-tightening the nut[/*:m:2wcs7mw2]
[*:2wcs7mw2]When the lens is cracking at the seam I believe this is related to the water chemistry. I have inspected many different lenses and typically these were baqua-spa related...I have also seen this on abused chlorine and bromine spas. [/*:m:2wcs7mw2]
[*:2wcs7mw2]We have since improved the chemical make-up of the plastic used .[/*:m:2wcs7mw2]
[*:2wcs7mw2]This issue is not related to any particular model [/*:m:2wcs7mw2]

...This is not a problem with the shell but rather the lens itself.... In the meantime remember to not over-tighten the nut when replacing it (hand tight plus 1/4 turn is fine)

The 2x4 prop is apparently a common fix on Hot Springs spas with a similar issue--don't think this stuff happens to Arctic alone--but in the HS spas there were also shell cracks reported, and we have not observed this in our product. Two dealers reporting multiple lens replacements had tried either a 2x4 prop or fiberglass reinforcement under the light area, neither of which had any great success. The lack of improvement with a brace and the absence of shell cracks indicated that shell flex was not the most likely cause of the lens problems. The extra support should do no harm, but take care that the 2x4 is the proper length and does not force the shell up at that point.

Another dealer reported finding that repeated leaks were the result of his technician not installing the lens properly. The incidence of lens leaks went down after the tech was retrained.

Speaking of proper installation, our Warranty Manager posted these instructions for replacing a lens:

The common reason for a light lens failure is cracking. Spas produced before April 2004 would have been manufactured with an early style light housing. Since then, the lens has changed in thickness and materials used to manufacture and has proved a much lower failure rate.

If you have a light lens that requires replacement, please ensure that the replacement was issued to you after April 2004. To remove the lens, cut the back nut off. (A Dremel tool with cutting disc is fast and easy.) Then remove the nut and push the lens through the shell into the drained spa. Do not remove lens by smashing or chiseling, as this can result in unwanted damage to the spa shell.

Once the area has been cleaned, silicone the front flange of the new lens and position it in the hole. Silicone the back around the threads and hand tighten the nut. Clean off excess silicone.

Note: It is possible that the leaking lens is not cracked, but rather the nut has skipped a thread. In this case, replacing the lens is not necessary, but rather remove the assembly and apply Teflon tape to the threads. Before removing the nut, mark its position on the threads and then apply the tape at that point so that it is positioned under the nut when replaced. Be sure to apply the tape in the opposite direction that the nut spins or it will get caught in the nut and move out of place. If no tape is available, an adequate amount of silicone would produce the same result if it was applied to the surface of the threads.

A few individual spas with repeated issues but no chemistry damage were found to have an unevenly ground lens seat; tightening warped and stressed the lens, causing premature failure. This was corrected in either of two ways: shimming the low side or using extra silicone and hand-tightening the nut only until it touched the high side. Both methods produced good results with no further leaks.

The silicone we recommend is Boss 801.

It is my hope that something in this lengthy post will be of assistance to you.

Happy hot tubbing
Tom

Tom, are your dealers aware of these installation instructions? geenooo, I have not paid attention to the silicone that was used. I assume the dealer service guys know what they are doing. Anyway I got the cavity of my tub all dried up now and am waiting to hear back on a replacement lamp. Going back to original question posed in this thread, I have had two other parts failures (both of these were during the warranty period).
1) The seal in the #1 pump started leaking.
2) The heater failed at about year 3 and had to be replaced.
Other complaint that I have is the fit and finish of the cabinet panels It seems the insulation could be tighter around them. Also, why not put the threaded inserts for the cabinet panels like the motor/cpu cabinet panels have all the way around? You only have to remove those other panels a couple of times before the deck screws start to strip out in the cabinet. Maybe the newer powder coated aluminum cabinet is the way to go. Despite all this I am happy with the tub, the heatlock concept is clever and makes repairs much easier. Interesting that my friend that has a different model Arctic (I think a 2003), has had no problems with the lamp leaking but has had one or more jets leak.

Joe, we do our best to ensure that dealers are aware -- we send the instructions to the dealers as Information Bulletins, we cover this in the Factory Technical Training, we review it periodically in our dealer newsletter, we have the information posted on our technical forum (any dealer who looks can find it, just as I did).

I think I saw a Production Revision for 2008 on this but I'll pass this along just in case. Thanks for the suggestion.

This product was removed from production in 2007 and is no longer available.

That's good to hear.

We purchased our Arctic, and was promised by our dealer that they would NEVER quit selling them. They belived in them 100%, blah blah blah. Needless to say, less than a year later, they quit selling them. We have NO dealerships in our state. Our display has started flashing "FLO" and we are waiting for a local spa dealership to find time to come out and replace our motor. (Arctic has sent us a replacement motor).

Yesterday, we discovered water leaking under our deck, from directly under the center of our tub. Since there are no water lines, hoses, etc running under our deck....the water could only be coming from one place: our Arctic. You know, the one with the "forever floor" that will stand up to bugs, rodents, etc., and will never leak! Oh yeah, and the jets keep popping out.

We opened the cabinet, and found some standing water inside the unit.

We feel like we have been thrown to the wolves. Our dealer no longer sells or works on them, our local pool/spa place has his own units he sells to work on, and we aren't 'handy' people. We have an incredibly expensive tub that has problems.

Anyone have any suggestions as to what we should do, or why the dang thing is leaking? My husband really wants to believe in this tub, and this company. I just feel like we made a HUGE mistake.

Hi, Tommy and Chris I'm sorry to hear of your problems and I will do what I can to help. We stand behind our product and will do our best to ensure your complete satisfaction. Here's what to do: 1. Note the serial number of your spa (which you will find on the small metal ETL plate at the bottom of one side of the cabinets). The S/N will look something like A04FX99999-TH 2. Send an email to warranty@goarctic.com with a cc to me (tom@goarctic.com). In your email, give all of the following information: your name, address, phone number, and the spa serial number. A customer service rep will phone and will walk you through diagnosis and, if possible, repair of your problem (with professional guidance, many owners are handier than they think!). If necessary, we will arrange for an independent service agency to come and work on your spa. A note in advance: your warranty covers parts and labor, but not travel fees. If your spa is no longer in warranty, you may contact any local service person to handle your repair work, or you may contact us to see if we have an authorized repair center in your area. Just as a point of interest, the Forever Floor does contain a vermin-proof valve to allow water inside the spa to drain. Prior to 2006, that valve was in the center of the floor, but in later years the valve was moved to the side of the floor. Looking forward to getting you back into hot water, Tom Note: Cross-post at http://spaforums.com/Spa-Repair/Plumbing/Arctic-Leaking-Thru-4everfloor-Water-Inside_4723.html#p14312

We've had our Arctic Spa since 2003.

From the get-go it has been problematic. First the jets kept disintegrating and falling out. The store would supply us with new jets, but they would eventually disintegrate, too. I think every jets in our tub has been replaced at least 5 times so far.

Then there was a problem with the electronic control panel, so they came and repaired that.

Then the bulb in the underwater light burnt out, so they replaced that. The new bulb burnt out about 4 months afterwards, so they had to replace it again.

Then one of the pumps stopped working. They replaced it.

Then one day the tub was completely empty. Turns out the lamp cover cracked and the water drained out. They replaced the lamp cover. Also due to the water leaking through the lamp cover onto the motors, the motors burnt out and both had to be replaced.

Then the silicone around the electronic control panel began to deteriorate, and moisture got under the panel and the display did not work. They replaced that, AGAIN.

All the original "pillows", as well as the filter cover thing that doubles as a drink holder, have completely fallen apart due to moisture and chemicals. As these items are not covered under warranty, we did not pay the high price of buying new ones. Obviously they're made of an inferior material that cannot withstand being in contact with the hot-tub environment. So we have had to do without these items for the past 4 years. BTW we have had the water tested regularly, and our dealer confirms that our water chemicals are well maintained, so it's not that we were over-using chemicals or causing the breakdown by what we were doing.

I am really torn. On one hand their service has been great, and they've always been prompt and courteous to fix the problems. They were all (most) under warranty (thankfully). However, I was beginning to think that we'd received somewhat of a "lemon" because a high-quality tub such as the one we bought should not have all these continual problems. We paid over $10G for this.

Well, the 5-year warranty has just run out, and we just got a whole whack of other problems:
We needed a new cover because the original one was completely water-logged and too heavy to lift. I kind of expected to have to buy a new cover after 5 years anyway, so that was not so bad. However, the cover-lift was completely rusted, and also needed to be replaced (NOT cheap!). IMO this should never have rusted in the first place. I also could no longer get the cover off the bromine basket and filter -- it was completely jammed due to deterioration, so that had to be replaced. The display panel was acting up again, due to poor silicone seal, and had to be replaced yet again. On top of all that, the water was full of a black oily substance that would not go away, even after draining and cleaning. It turns out that some of the hoses and an o-ring were deteriorating, thus emitting the black residue into the water. That had to be fixed as well. We ended up with a very hefty bill of over one thousand dollars.

Well here we go again.....only 3 weeks after the expensive major repairs that we had to pay for, the heater will not come on, and the display is showing FLO. I was told it must be a dirty filter, so I bought a new one, but it made no difference. Tried all kinds of other things that the store suggested, including re-setting breaker, draining and refilling tub, etc. Still doesn't work! So, now we have to wait for a service technician to come out AGAIN to see what the problem is.

The silicone around the lamp lens is starting to come off, as I see pieces of it hanging and flailing in the water. I have to wonder when this seal will eventually be compromised, causing another major leak/drain/repair.

The cover panels that access the equipment are not secured, because the receptacle thingy's that the screws go into, are all broken -- probably from the many many times that this tub has been serviced. So now the panels are just sitting there, propped closed by the steps. I guess I'll have to permanently screw the covers on myself somehow before winter comes, so small critters don't get in there and make a nice warm home under the tub!

And now I'm also wondering when the remainder of the original hoses will start to melt down and ooze black goo into the water.


I will be flippin' mad if I have to pay another expensive service call, when I just had somebody here 3 weeks ago!

And to top it off, the serviceman suggested that I just trade in my current tub for a new one, to avoid future problems. He said I could probably get $2000 to $2500 credit on the trade-in. Well, HELLOOOOOO, I don't have an extra $8,000 sitting around to pay for a brand new hot tub! Sounds like they're just trying to make another sale.

YES, I THINK I HAVE AN ARCTIC LEMON! I could just cry.

Tom from Blue Falls Manufacturing....do you have any suggestions for me? Anybody at Blue Falls I can contact about this? I really feel that we were sold a Lemon from day one. This should not be happening. We cannot afford to buy a new spa, even with the trade-in credit. The store in Whitby is no help. They just want to make another sale. This particular spa obviously has a record of being problematic from the get-go. I really need help!

Sorry to hear of all your difficulties, as that is not at all typical of our product. It sounds like the Whitby store had honored your warranty throughout. Now that the warranty has expired, I'm not sure what recourse you have, but I will look into it for you.

I bought my first tub the Xmas of 2006. Leaks and more leaks. Some water damage due to humidity and poor, delayed service response. I am 2 hrs drive from the retail service outlet where I bought the tub. I too was sold on the story of quality, harsh winter ruggedness, ease of maintenance due to accessability, quality control, we-stand-behind-the-product sales pitch.

After 6 months of 4 tech visits and no resolve, my tub was replaced in the summer with a new one. Today I have the same leak issues plus jets are popping out.

I've left message after message and concern after concern with the Arctic Spa retail outlet with no response. I lose 3-4" of water level every week and have to fill these with a hose in -40deg ain't fun. I've been living with this for over a year on 2nd new tub. I too have pools of water inside my cabinet base.

I would not recommend Arctic Spa unless you live in the immediate service area and have a lot of patience because the service techs must be busy?

I do not think anyone should spend $8-15K and get this kind of stress, poor quality and service. I did not buy a tub because I like to fix stuff or babysit water levels....it was supposed to be a stress-reducer not a stress-adder!

I really enjoy getting in it, but this is overshadowed by the continuous problems I've had with these tubs since the first one and since it was first filled.

You're absolutely right about that! We do build a good product and most of our customers have a good experience, so I apologize that you are experiencing these issues. Customer satisfaction is important to us. Please PM me with the serial number of your hot tub and the name of your dealer. I'll see what I can to to help.

I responded via PM as requested. Let me know how you progress this issue please. Thanks for your help.

Regards, Kevin

Thanks, Kevin.
Got your note, reported your original post to the dealer, will follow up with a phone call. Please keep in touch directly, tom at goarctic dot com.

We've had our Arctic Spa "Tundra" for about 4 years now. ....had a leak in the #1 pump/motor after about a year. Dealer fixed it quickly. Excellent service out of Peabody, MA.

I did the normal "engineer" review that the Dilbert types like me do before a large purchase. Dry and wet tested many models. Created spreadsheets and graphs (perhaps on more things that were needed).

Reasons that I selected Arctic Spas.....
01) comfort of seats (I'm not a light-weight)
02) Microban shell finish
03) The cedar cabinet doesn't warp each time that the hot summer sun hits it. Also, no worries about sticking to a frozen metal cabinet (remember the flag pole scene in "A Christmas Story"?)
04) wrap-around lip of the shell rests directly on the cedar cabinet. That may not seem like an important item, but my neighbors' spas have an opening under the lip between the shell and cabinet. They find, at least twice each year, that wasps like to build nests there. The first time, they didn't find out until they were in the tub and turned on the jets. ...the bees weren't pleased.
05) the open design inside the cabinet and insulation on the cabinet, not on the shell and plumbing. Knowing the normal operating temperature of these types of motors, I'm not concerned by the motors operating in that closed warm enviroment
06) The higher lip on the shell compared to other tubs helps the cold winter winds deflect over us
07) raised bumps on the floor seem to greatly reduce slipping
0 the powerful big jet is great against aching muscles
09) the heavy-duty cover easily holds a couple of feet of heavy snow
10) excellent warranty

Offhand, that's all that comes to mind. I threw away my charts years ago....

However, on the minus side...
01) the filter media is expensive. Although it lasts 3 or 4 months and does an incredible job of keeping the water clear, $30US seems too much
02) the small (3" jets seem to pop out and the plastic clips on the back of them are cracked. They are not at all abused, and seldom adjusted to vary water pressure. Interestingly, it almost always seems to be at the deep seat to the right of the control panel. Currently, five of them are out with cracked clips.
03) the display panel is not easy to read from an angle. A new design with colored images that can be viewed from the side would be a big asset
04) add the threaded screw lugs to all access panels, the wood screws will strip-out the cedar after a few times

Do I recommend Arctic Spas? Yup.... to anyone that will listen, and some that don't.
Would I buy anyother one? Probably. The "engineer" side of me will make me run through all of those charts and graphs again. But, in my mind, Arctic Spa sets the standard that all othes would be judged.

You WILL get what you pay for. Everyone that I know that purchased an inexpensive (cheap) spa from a lumber yard or warehouse club has regretted it.

Bottom line..... a hot tub/spa is like a spouse. Different people are looking for specific features that are important to them. Investgate carefully, and try them before buying. I did, and I think that I got the best! spa and wife!

Thank you for your comments. A couple of notes

The bumps on the floor have been removed (2005 and newer I think), but I will forward your comment to R&D for future consideration.

The jets are under warranty and will be replaced free of charge by your local dealer. Simply take them in for exchange. Ask about the new threaded jet upgrade (subject to availability) for that one seat.

Both of these issues have been addressed and may be available as upgrades (another benefit of the Arctic design is the ease of upgrades).

Best wishes
Tom

IMG_1669.JPG Here's how I spend most of my time with my new Arctic Spa. Leaked ever since I got it. Service is useless, had many visits with zero results. Now warranty people are telling me they are going to charge me for visits to fix their defective product. I wouldn`t wish or recommend this frustration to anyone. " title="Sad" />

IMG_1665.JPG Here is the product of over a year of water leaking into the base. I lose 4 inches of water every 3-4 days. Mould, chemical residuals, and saturated cedar (the doors don`t even fit properly any more because cedar expands when it gets wet). Also the cedar wood panels gets so spongy where the wood is exposed the cheap construction staples used to hold them together pull out on the trim. These tubs were not made to be opened and closed continuously or be exposed to constant humidity. I have spent a year of battling with Service Reps to fix this thing, expressing my concerns with water pooling in the base. Service guys have been here and never resolved the root leakage problems. It`s ALWAYS a pump union that needs tightened, but never anything else. I have also communicated and have gotten minimal support from the Head Office. Arctic Spa claims they stand behind their tubs and the warranty,....but from what I`ve seen this is not true. I`m sure they are great assets if they don`t leak,......but I wouldn`t know what that is like.

I'm sorry to hear that you feel you have received poor service and support. I've done what I can to help, which includes liaison with the store manager and our warranty department. Your concerns have been forwarded to the VP Sales (one of the owners) to see if anything more can be done.

kittfree wrote:
"I do not think anyone should spend $8-15K and get this kind of stress, poor quality and service. I did not buy a tub because I like to fix stuff or babysit water levels....it was supposed to be a stress-reducer not a stress-adder!"

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Further to my previous posts regarding constant problems with our Arctic Spa.....

The topside controls that were replaced in the fall of 2008, are faulty (AGAIN)!!! I just called the store, and they said there is NO WARRANTY on replacement parts. WTHeck?!?!? She said that parts, and even replacement parts, are only under warranty while your original warranty is valid. Since our tub is now 5 1/2 years old, and the warranty ran out 6 months ago, there is no warranty on the brand new control panel that was purchased and installed a few months ago.
I cannot believe this. Now I have to spend over $200 again to get a new control panel, which also comes with no warranty?

To top this off, the tub has developed a slow leak (Yes, AGAIN). I have no idea how to tell where the leak is coming from. So I will have to spend copious amounts of money to have a service guy come out and figure it out. Then it will need to be drained, fixed, and re-filled. Our outdoor plumbing is shut down for the season, and cannot be used until probably March, when it's warm enough for the pipes to defrost. So we won't even have a way to re-fill the tub right now, except for carrying buckets of water from the house to the tub. This is what I've had to do for the past week, just to keep the water level up. Oh, my aching back. What I need is a nice soak in a hot tub...d'oh!

In the meantime, I really am at a loss. This unit has caused NOTHING but STRESS from the beginning. To have spent this kind of money, and get nothing but trouble, and nothing but excuses from the store....well that's just not right. Usually you get what you pay for. But in this case, I think something is seriously wrong. I would expect more from such a reputable Canadian company. Regardless of whether a warranty has run out or not, if you've had nothing but trouble from the first month, I would hope that a company would do everything they can to "make it right", and keep satisfied customers.

I am so upset right now.

For almost four years, I have been the corporate spokesman for Arctic Spas on this and other forums. It's been a pleasure and privilege working with other spa professionals here. I've enjoyed helping owners who encounter difficulties and I've appreciated hearing from satisfied customers -- regardless of brand. I'm having to direct much of my time to another project for about a month and will not be available on the forum. This means that I will be 1. Unable to respond to spam notices 2. Very slow to respond to private messages 3. Unlikely to reply to posts This is farewell but not good-bye. I hope to be back in February. If you wish to reply to this post, go ahead - it might make interesting reading when I get back next month. " title="Wink" /> In the meantime, please address warranty questions to warranty at goarctic dot com. Send Onzen questions to the email address on page six of your Onzen owner manual. Other questions may be addressed to info at goarctic dot com. Wishing everybody a Happy New Year Tom

Further to my post of Jan. 5, 2009, here is an update:

Our 3rd topside control was replaced in January, shortly after my complaint to Arctic Spas head office. They offered to cover the actual unit under warranty (how nice of them. The girl in the store who told me that there is no warranty on any replacement part was apparently wrong, as the topside control should come with a 1-year warranty), but no warranty on the labour.

Well, here we go AGAIN.....

That topside control that was replaced in January, has gone all wonky again, and the digits cannot be read. This will require another control to be replaced. Also working on finally fixing that leak (thank goodness for warmer weather), which has been confirmed to be a cracked lamp lens -- this would be the 2nd cracked lens for us.

You can add me to the crowd of disappointed Arctic owners. Several different problems with the tub over a couple of years. Poor customer service. I've been nickle and dimed to death even under warranty. This is by far the most disappointing purchase I've ever made.

Just out of curiosity, where are you located (city), wetnwild?

I've found that in most cases the majority of the participants of these type of "opinion" requests are from those with BAD experiences.

Are there no HAPPY Arctic Spa owners?

I have it narrowed down to an Arctic Spa CUB or Limelight Flair. I actually like the CUB better, but not if it's going to cause me grief! I'm actually going tomorrow to test drive a CUB.

Any new comments?

Thanks,
Spartacus_33

Nothing positive to add unfortunately. I've contacted the factory about the warranty work I received. I complained about a pump that was replaced under warranty and wasn't fastened to the tub base. I haven't heard back from Beau Boisvert. I'll paste the email here. Hi Paul I will speak with the dealership in MN. Thanks Beau -----Original Message----- From: me@juno.com Sent: July 16, 2009 12:10 PM To: beau@goarctic.com Subject: RE: warranty question Hi Beau, Just wondering if you got the pictures I sent? Can you answer my questions? Thanks, Paul ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Beau Boisvert" To: Subject: RE: warranty question Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:02:26 -0600 Hi Paul Where are you located at? Thanks Beau -----Original Message----- From: me@juno.com Sent: July 15, 2009 1:40 PM To: beau@goarctic.com Subject: RE: warranty question Beau, I'm sending you some pictures of my spa. The first 2 should show that the pump is not mounted to anything in the tub. The hardware on the pump doesn't match up to the hardware in the tub. The 3rd picture shows that the ground wire isn't attached. There isn't even a screw to fasten the wire to the pump. This seems dangerous! The 4th picture is trying to show a white residue at the back end of the pump. Not a great picture, sorry. Looks like the pump leaked at one time. Was this pump used before being installed in my spa and is that a common practice with Arctic? Is this the right pump for my model spa? Thanks in advance for taking the time to answer my questions. Paul ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Beau Boisvert" To: Subject: RE: warranty question Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:05:28 -0600 Hi Paul Fairly often the dealers will not replace all of the pump nuts on a pump when this is replaced. They should however be using at least a couple of the nuts in order to keep the motor from vibrating. Thanks Beau Boisvert Warranty Manager Blue Falls Manufacturing Ltd. -----Original Message----- From: me@juno.com Sent: July 15, 2009 9:46 AM To: Warranty@goarctic.com Subject: warranty question Dear Sir, Is it a common practice with Arctic Spa that when a pump is replaced under warranty by the local Arctic Spa dealer, that it would not be fastened to the base of the tub? Thanks in advance, Paul I've sent a couple of follow up emails and I haven't heard back. Simple question, poor customer service IMO.

I hear you... customer service is very important. I'm pretty impressed with the dealership here and they supposedly have a "crack" tech. One never knows though....... until the hour of proof. " title="Cool" />

Hi, Joining in here on the discussion regarding Arctic Spas. We are on our second model. First one replaced under warranty due to multiple issues, however we had to pay the difference between what we originally paid and what the new model costs. Although the new spa pumps, heater and other major components seem to be working well in this model, we continue to be plagued with popping jets. To add insult to the wound, our local dealer (Libertyville, Illinois) has disconnected their phone and customers are greeted at the door of their dealership with a post it note that says they are "temporarily closed for a service call". Uh, O.K. It's been three weeks and I've stopped by four times. Must be a long service call. Obviously the place has gone bankrupt or closed for whatever reasons. Half the showroom is empty. It's clear they are out of business. There are no other dealers in our State from what I have been able to research. Other spa dealers in our area DO NOT want to deal with Arctics. Basically they only want to deal with customers who buy their spas. So, what do we do. So far we are only dealing with popping jets, but we fear if we develop issues (as with the prior lemon model) we are in big trouble. " title="Rolling Eyes" /> Anyone out there have any ideas how to keep these jets in place? We're losing pressure from all the popping jets as it throws off the overall pressure balance in the rest of the jets. We have some seats with only two out of eight jets in place because they've all popped. Last time I was at our now closed dealer I he replaced four of the old jets with the "2009 model" and they seem to be holding, but 6 more of the old ones have now popped. With the store closed we cannot get anymore replacements free. When I told the dealer this has been an continual problem he responded, "Welcome to our world! It's our number one issue...damned popping jets!" Great, huh? Truthfully we don't care about turning the jets off and on. At this point we'd be O.K. with keeping them in the on position all the time. We just want them to stay in place and stop popping out! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. " title="Exclamation" />

Arctic Spas has completely redesigned the jets to eliminate popouts, and will replace your old tabbed jets free provided your spa is under warranty. Please email warranty at goarctic dot com giving your name and the spa serial number, and explain your situation. Ask if the screw-in retaining rings will work in your hot tub. Installation of the new jet retaining system involves only a Phillips screwdriver and is easy for the owner to do.

The company has also arranged for independent service in the area to handle any other warranty issues that may arise.

Thanks Grayed,
I emailed Arctic Spa yesterday but will also try the email you have suggested. If they will replace the popped jets with something that will stay in place I will be a happy spa owner once again!!

We did our research prior to purchasing our spa in 2005 and found that Arctic far surpassed the construction level of other manufacturers, so it was with great disappointment that we have continued to battle with the popping jets.

Nice to know they have re-engineered to solve the problem, but it would be even nicer if they voluntarily did a recall of older spa jets and offered to replace old jets with the new. It's never a good thing when individual customers have to go to battle on their own. In this case, where there appear to be thousands of owners with the same issue, Arctic could have done a better job getting out in front of the problem.

You're right, CJ, and I wish we'd handled it that way instead of through our newsletter and dealership network. I do apologize for that.

Many spa manufacturers don't warranty their jets, and leave the customer with the cost of replacements. Fortunately, jets are covered under your warranty. For situations like yours, we customarily ship out a full set of replacement jets at no charge.

Keep in touch.

Tom

Edited to remove incorrect information.

There are, and they're in the majority, but they're not as vocal as the unhappy few. Personally, I think one unhappy customer is one too many.... but I'm not always in a position to help, and even when I try I'm not always effective. " title="Crying or Very sad" />

Thanks Tom. I just emailed Arctic my serial number and a request for replacement jets and rings. I have severe arthritis and the spa is used daily for therapeutic reasons, so hopefully I'll hear back from Arctic soon.

Ceejay

I had the jet problem too.

I was told by the dealer that it was not a water/chemical problem, but a defect in the plastic they used. So the dealer gave us a new set of jets to replace the original ones. This happened quite early on after we got the new tub. The thing that really stinks about it is that we paid for top of the line jets, and the ones we were given as replacements were the ordinary kind that don't really do much. They said that's all they had in stock.

Every few months, we would have more disintegrated jets, and they'd be replaced with more of the same plain ones. I kept asking if they had replacements for our original jets, but I was told that they didn't get any of those in from head office. I asked if they could be specifically ordered in, and the store said they had little control over what head office sends them.


ceejay: Please keep us posted on how the new jets work out, how easy they are to install, etc.

I'd love to replace my current jets with a set that will no longer pop out, and hopefully they have the full range of jet styles to choose from.....but I'd like to hear from somebody else how they're performing, before I invest $$ into these new ones (since our spa is over 5 years old, we'll have to pay to replace the jets now.)

The replacement retaining system is available for 5" and 3" jets but not for Orca, Typhoon, or other large floor/foot jets.
Since you have an older hot tub, styles currently available may differ from what you had.
The replacement jets are of two types, screw-in and tabless. The screw-in jets may not fit all older Arctic Spas (Dealer Support says 2003 and later are okay, some 2002 models may work, before that is iffy) and your dealer is in the best position to advise you. I'm not sure about the backwards compatibility of the tabless jets. You might start with one screw-in jet and retainer to see how it works.
Supply has finally caught up to demand (which was not the case when we discussed this last year) and we have good stocks of both the jets and the retrofit retainer rings.
I've emailed you some info about the how easy it is to install the new jets. CJ, if you want this info too, just email me (tom at goarctic dot com)

Tom

Hi Tom, I heard back from the Arctic Warranty division today. Great response time! " title="Razz" /> Good to know. They are planning to send me a full set of replacement jets for my spa. I am hoping this will resolve the popping jet issue. I will let you know how it goes. Hopefully he'll send some instructions for the jet installs, otherwise we may have to pick your brain. Thanks again for your help with this problem! As for others reading this thread who may be contemplating the purchase of an Arctic Spa, although we have had some repair issues, Arctic customer service has always been responsive and accommodating. Ceejay

I just emailed it to you through this forum.
Tom

We bought our Arctic Fox back in 2005 and have loved darn near every minute of ownership. When the couple of issues arose, our dealer was there pronto to provide the necessary fixes. Now that we have moved from the arctic to the Pacific coast, all of the rubbers under the jets are leaking. While it may be an issue, I found a dealer 125 miles away willing to work the warranty for us. I called the corporate office in Canada and the gal there was very responsive in providing the latest how-to-fix as compared to their current manufacturing process. We have owned many different hot tubs and our opinion is that Arctic Spa is hands down the most economical spa to run. While in living in Fairbanks, Alaska our electric bill was only $20 a month more to run the spa in 40 below zero weather. The "others" averaged from $75 to $175 more to run. As mentioned before, everyone has a style and taste that differs, that's what makes product lines so different! For the long run, as we get older, the spa is one of the most relaxing ways to help our joints keep moving. Thanks Arctic Spa.

Apparently the Arctic Spa dealer here in the Portland, OR / Vancouver, WA area is top rated.
Quote from Tom (grayed):

"They've been with us for 12 years and have been our #1 dealer for many of those years. They've won I think 5 dealer of the year awards, including last year."

I've got it narrowed down to an Arctic Glacier or Jacuzzi 365. Basically the same price... both seem like great tubs. Going to wet test the Glacier this weekend. One thing that I just love about the Glacier are those 2 DEEP seats! If the jets are as good as the seats.... I'm probably going with the Glacier.

Promised I'd update on the installation of the new replacement jets for our Arctic Cub Spa. So far we have not received them form Arctic Spa. I was told they would be shipped early last week, but nothing so far. I've emailed the contact at Arctic and will hopefully hear back and get a shipment soon?

Received word from Arctic that my new replacement jets were shipped on Aug. 17 so they should be here soon. I'll update after I receive and we try to install.

O.K. Received replacement jets shipped from Arctic today. Opened box and saw that they are the same fixed tab jets that we currently have and are already having problems with. So far we have not been able to install them and have them stay in place, same popping problem as with prior jets. Any suggestions Tom? Can they be permanently installed with a silicone product. Is there any way to keep these in the housing? " title="Crying or Very sad" /> Ceejay

Ceejay... is this an older tub? Are these the only jets that will fit? or... are these the new jets that they put on their new spas? Thanks, Spartacus_33

spartacus: Ceejay's spa is relatively new, and still under warranty.

I've been following this thread, to find out ceejay's progress, as I hope to replace all of my defective jets too (but I'd have to PAY full price for them, since my spa is no longer under warranty).

Sounds like head office messed up. I'm not surprised. Many times I've "ordered" special jets to replace the special ones that I paid for in the first place and that failed, only to continually receive the basic jets that don't have the massage action. The store says it's not their problem, because that's what Head Office keeps sending them.

I still believe that Arctic Spa has a very good product. It's just unfortunate that Head Office doesn't do a good job of standing behind their product. They keep pushing the responsibility back onto the dealers, and the dealers are helpless as well if they don't get the support from the Company. Meanwhile, while all of this finger pointing and shuffling the responsibility back and forth is going on, the clock is ticking, and warranties expire, leaving the customer holding the bag and paying for it.

In my opinion, I should be receiving replacement jets free of charge. The jets were defective from the beginning, and they never resolved the problem while my spa was under warranty. That's not my fault. NOW they claim they have solved the problem, but since my warranty is expired, I have to pay? That's just not right. Not my fault it took them 5 years to find a jet that doesn't fall apart.

I wet tested the Arctic "Glacier" on Saturday. I love the deep seats, but actually was not that impressed with the jet action. They didn't compare with the jets at Hot Springs Spas. I have them (Arctic dealer) at $7340 for the Glacier Signature (including a lid lifter and cedar step). They seem to be holding their ground and aren't willing to go any lower. The other spa in the running for me is the Jacuzzi J-365 and ironically, I have them down to about the same price ($7,400). Going back to test the J-365 again this week.

Back to the Arctic jets.... I mentioned this thread to the Arctic dealer and they said that the new jets, screw in so they can't pop out. They showed me how they actually DO screw in. The new jet inserts actually have 3 or 4 complete thread turns, not just a half turn like many older spa jets. I don't see how the older Arctic spas could use these new jets without replacing the female part that is built into the shell.

Thanks,
Spartacus_33

The 2x4 prop is apparently a common fix on Hot Springs spas with a similar issue--don't think this stuff happens to Arctic alone--but in the HS spas there were also shell cracks reported, and we have not observed this in our product.

I had to reply to this. These "issues" were from HotSpring spas built around 1994. I don't think it's prudent to mention this when talking about newer Arctic spas. HotSpring doesn't have issues with this any longer and haven't for MANY years.

I have been informed by the warranty department that this information is incorrect. The current warranty replacement is a fixed-tab jet (which is different from the flex-tab jets formerly used). The flat screw-in retaining rings are no longer used. The current screw-in jets, which use a sort of a cup retainer, are available as an optional upgrade.

My apologies for any confusion this has caused.

So does this mean, that if someone had bad jets and wanted to replace them, it would cost a little extra to have the screw in replacments sent, instead of just sending replacement old jets ?
Thanks
Ross

hitch9, yes, that's sure what it appears to be.

Their jets are defective in design and material, and have been for many many years. So they've finally (hopefully) come up with a fix for this problem, but it's considered an upgrade that you have to pay for.

Where is the customer support? IMO they should be sending all of their customers, or at least the ones who've had continual problems with the defective jets, a replacement set of the screw-in type. It would be good P.R. for the company. Sort of like "thank you for your patience over the past several years in putting up with the jets....here is something to fix the problem."

Let me see if I can clarify. The original jets were a flex-tab type. They were a common design in the industry some years ago, and Arctic was not the only manufacturer to have issues with them. Not all manufacturers replaced the jets under warranty, but Arctic and many others did and still do. I speak from personal experience: for my previous hot tub, I had to replace bad jets at $15 a pop (pun intentional). The issue was identified as being due to common spa chemicals affecting the plastic of which the jets were made, causing the tabs to weaken or break; water pressure then popped the jet body out of the housing. Our chemical engineers worked with parts suppliers to find a better plastic formula while our R&D staff worked to find a better overall design. At first, we had no choice but to replace popping jets with identical flex-tab design jets, because there was no alternative. Of course, eventually the new ones would pop out in turn. We replaced jets with each new plastic formula in turn - which reduced but did not eliminate the popouts. In the meantime, we developed two new designs. The first was a fixed-tab model that eliminated the weak spots where the tabs would flex, weaken, and break. This reduced popouts significantly. It is this fixed-tab design which is used for free warranty replacement. They work well in most cases. A new screw-in retention system which was, I believe, first introduced in 2007 model spas totally eliminated the popouts. However, this threaded jet design was not retroactive and couldn't fit older spas. We developed a quick-n-easy method of replacing the tab-clip ring with a threaded ring so that people could use the new threaded jets if they wished. In 2009, an improved and stronger thread retainer was developed that is backwards-compatible for the last five model years (and possibly earlier; if interested, see your dealer). I had thought this screw-in retention system (threaded retainer and threaded jet) was being offered as a warranty replacement. That was my mistake and I apologize. The Warranty Manager set me straight: it is an optional upgrade. So to go back to Hitch9's question, if you have "bad old jets" (flex-tab) and your spa is under warranty, they will be replaced free of charge with the newer fixed-tab jets. If a fixed-tab jet eventually gives way, it will be replaced (if under warranty) with a similar jet. Should you wish to upgrade to the threaded jets, please talk to your dealer. No dealer nearby? Try http://www.spagoods.com or http://www.hottubstore.ca or email info at arctic spas dot com for factory-direct purchase.